This really needs to stop.

Discussion in 'Plugin Development' started by Nijikokun, Aug 3, 2011.

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  1. Offline

    Nijikokun

    There are way too many people copying ideas, or just plain re-creating the wheel. I don't mind if you make something because it doesn't work and acts as though a five year old made it with crayons and yarn. But, if there is a viable working, and continued developmental plugin going on... there is no point in re-creating it.

    Especially since this is an open source community. Sure it's good practice to make something existing or use parts (with permission) for learning. But, don't release it if you can simply fork and alter the original, or come to means with the original creator about why this aspect of their plugin could be better.

    Oh, but you're just jealous of blah blah... No, I'm not jealous of anything, I love when people create things because I've inspired them, or they are just inspired in general. Maybe a while back I might have had some instances of jealousy, but, maybe working three jobs has made me care less.

    Either way, you guys make a plugin that already exists every day, release it, and for some god forsaken reason the team allows it to be published instead of redacting it like they should or suggesting you should fork and aspire to help develop an existing plugin.

    There are literally 6 ~ 12 permission plugins that work, and four different versions of them. Granted I did start this shit storm (Sorry about that, It was only intended for about two weeks, turned into 6~7 months), it should really be stopped.

    There should be no reason to have to create a bridge for everything under the sun. Tomorrow we will have another bridge that does the same thing as another bridge, or another plugin that alters groups the same way as the one to your left does.

    Thats how programming works though... No, thats how closed-source programming works, or better yet, cross platform programming works. This is for a single outlet, and a single object. As well as open source. So there is no reason to infringe on someone or their creations, or force your plugin to cause issues with the whole community by making a bridge.

    There are two bridges: Economy (This i can see as being okay, since it's natural in humans to strive to have alternate revenue streams / sources), and Permissions.

    Soon there will be Help, and Info (These have gained a rise in creation lately at 5 and 3)

    So please, stop re-creating stuff. and fork and inspire that way, your name is still on it and your ego can still exist and grow. Also, you don't have to support as much.

    Map renderers... are map renderers nobody supports those

    TL;DR This is open source projects, plz fork and stop re-creating wheel with different spokes. there are lots of frames for dose wheels nao, too many. Plz stop. Your bike will still exist if u fork and u dont need as many time to support bcoz u had tons of help. kthx.

    [​IMG]

    Examples of how things can be avoided:

    This does x but i want x
    Make a new plugin, now people need to support two plugins
    Fork plugin and add feature which can be toggled via configuration, or suggest feature (Save time, and support issues)

    The creator hates me
    Make own plugin release it, basically same plugin just different setup
    Fork plugin change it, send pull request, maybe the author will like your code and it will show you have a good personality.

    They made fun of my idea
    Do the above, while they may think your idea is dumb or maybe it just wasn't presented right. Show them how it works through coding and make it toggable, configuration always is a plus and is usually always guaranteed to be approved as long as it doesn't fudge other features up.

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2016
    vhbob, Totom3, iTristan and 36 others like this.
  2. Offline

    codename_B

    I'm pushing for info plugins to support a standardised interface via BukkitServices - so the info one is a moot point. Don't forget map renders though! There's two of them!
     
  3. Offline

    DrBowe

    To be honest, I thought this was going to be more of a rant against the people who basically want their plugin to be coded for them. The people that (by some god-given miracle) got the Plugin Developer title, and then come to 'Plugin Development' EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. to ask about questions that could be answered by taking the time to look at the API.

    But I'm ok with this rant as well.
     
    Mentioum likes this.
  4. Offline

    wwsean08

    same
     
  5. Offline

    DrBowe

    And while we're on the subject of re-inventing the wheel...
    So help me God, if I see another 'GRIEF-PREVENTION. U GUISE DUN PLACE TNT N STOOF. I LOG EVENTS. BUT NO WHERE NEAR AS WELL AS BIGBROTHER/LOGBLOCK' ...
    I will beat somebody with a rake.
     
  6. Offline

    cholo71796

    I agree with both rants. I've seen a few cases where people create a ton of extremely basic and unoriginal plugins and then, even worse, release all of them in separate threads.

    I also see many plugins that are just a few commands that don't do much of anything and leave the rest to your imagination. I have quite a few good examples, but I won't list them here.

    I also like when people create a plugin that does one very specific thing that could easily be done by another plugin's configuration file. For example- releasing a plugin that makes gold swords do more damage when you could use ModDamage, or releasing a plugin that makes stair blocks drop stair blocks instead of using one of the various drop-editing plugins.

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2016
  7. Offline

    DrBowe

    @cholo71796
    I mean, its not that hard to come up with something.

    Hell, my first crack at a plugin was ComPassionate. It was relatively simple, but it was unique. There weren't 20 other plugins of its kind.
    EnergySword was the same way. It was extremely simple, but it hadn't been done before.

    Even if you have to think abstractly to get the job done...do it! Don't make another re-hashed PoS.
    I dont care if your plugin makes pink elephants with rainbow-unicorn horns emerge from the ground, and then proceed to feast upon human flesh.

    Just do something new.
     
    Mentioum, Dark_Balor, Kohle and 2 others like this.
  8. Offline

    DrAgonmoray

    I'm adding this to my sig.
     
    desmin88 and tips48 like this.
  9. Offline

    olloth

    Yeah when I first started trying to decide what to program I wanted to make an RPG mod but I was like you know what, there are like 5 of them. Let me think about this more. I ended up making a nice little mod that makes a calendar and keeps track of seasons and stuff. Especially now with spout on the rise, it's pretty easy to come up with something that doesn't exist yet.
     
  10. Offline

    cholo71796

    Yeah. I've made a few plugins, but I haven't released any until now (because this was my first one that was unique and well-made (by my standards, anyway)). It lets you play Connect Four and tic-tac-toe via a virtual chest interface.
     
  11. Offline

    codename_B

    With the advent of the MapAPI - I can foresee a lot more plugins being at least reasonably unique :)

    EDIT: I know I've reinvented the "wheel" a number of times. I was going to submit a pull request to iChat to add bInfo prefix/suffix support but it wouldn't have gotten pulled so I made bChat instead.
     
  12. Offline

    DrBowe

    @cholo71796
    And thats what we need more of!

    Not too long ago, I saw a plugin that re-created Battleship inside of Minecraft.
    It blew. my. mind.

    Now-a-days, not many things in the submissions tend to impress me. MobDisguise was the first one that I've seen in a looooong time, that actually branched out and tried something that nobody had done before. The kind of thing that people had claimed was 'impossible'

    And as someone above me said,
    With Spout on the rise, the shackles that used to bind client-to-client and server-to-server are being taken off. And when that happens, we should start seeing some VERY impressive things.
     
  13. Offline

    cholo71796

    I'm looking forward to working with Spout.

    Tangentially, I think I'll add Othello to my plugin! Doubly tangentially, anybody know what other board games would fit in a virtual chest?

    Non-tangentially, I seriously think the plugin release requirements should be altered.
     
  14. Offline

    desmin88

    @DrBoweNur
    Thank you for your appreciation towards MobDisguise!
     
  15. Offline

    DrBowe

    I feel like a double chest could work for checkers.
     
  16. Offline

    cholo71796

    @DrBoweNur I suppose I could mod checkers so you only have two rows of pieces
     
  17. Offline

    chernobyl360

    mhm thanks for pointing me out. i do have memory issues and it requires me to ask ALOT of questions to get my projects finished. ive learned alot in my 8 months of being on bukkit. but some days its harder then others.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-traumatic_amnesia

    i was in a bus accident. i spent two days in the hospital with a brain hemorrhage. ever since then ive been struggling to talk/communicate with others and preform everyday objectives. Java coding has been the only way to * work * my brain back to the original state.
    minimized to reduce thread spamming...

    anyways... yes this OP is very correct. there are ALOT of plugins that have been copied and reused many times. i.e TNT plugins. ive been sitting in my room since jun 17 * end of school * and ive been trying to think of new things. so far ive created 2 plugins, modsiren and blacklung. modsiren's a moderating tool and blacklung's is a RPG plugin that tries to make coal mining more realistic.
     
  18. Offline

    DrBowe

    @chernobyl360
    No, I'm not pointing you out. Becuase what you ask can not be found by simply taking the time to look through an API. I have a select few in my head right now, but you're not one of them. I don't mind it there's questions about configuration, or schedulers, or any other 'concept'...because we all had questions at one point.

    What pisses me off is when you see threads that ask such straight-forward questions, that you have to ask yourself why they have a purple tag next to their name in the first place.
     
  19. Offline

    flametornado

    I agree with OP, thought I do understand if people want to make a more advanced version of an existing plugin, with more functionality or make it more customizable (probably because that's what I did :p ). I do agree that the time would be better spent contacting the original developer and working together, but as I'm sure most developers know, you can get people who view their code as their baby and want complete creative rights over it. With cases like this, it's pretty normal to have one plugin die off eventually as people switch. What I really don't like is when people, like the OP says, re-invent the wheel, especially if they re-invent a worse wheel.
     
  20. Offline

    undeadmach1ne

    please make this...i would love to stumble across a pink unicorn-aphant eating a dead body and then have to fight it off or become its next victim...
     
  21. Offline

    M1sT3rM4n

    As a plugin developer I have nothing to say, since I don't code. But as a server administrator, it's quite annoying to see different plugins that do the same thing. I have to spend upwards of thousands of years to sift through all the useless, repetitive posts.

    /rage
     
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  22. Offline

    RabidCrab

    Frankly, the open source community is terrible at documenting functionality, which makes their code difficult and time consuming to build off of. People just code out line after line of code without thinking once; "Hey, I bet some people may look at this someday and wonder what this function is doing, or why I'm doing this process so oddly". I think it's because people can't read other peoples code that duplicates are everywhere.

    I'm guilty of not commenting my code to an extent as I have skimped on some documentation, but frankly I would be praying to the Programming Commenting God every day and thanking him if I found any plugin with more than a mere 20 lines of comments that aren't pieces of commented code, and not procedurally generated.

    If you make a function, and you're not proud enough of the functions elegance to tack on a short explanation as to what it does, then you should rethink being a programmer. Eclipse gives you a super easy method for commenting code blocks, use it for the love of Commentus, God of Program Commenting, so that others may build upon what you have made without butchering the plugin.
     
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  23. Offline

    fullwall

    Nice post @Nijikokun . I think the hope is that you have to start somewhere (though this doesn't apply to many unfortunately). I agree that I am seeing fewer interesting plugins in the submissions, as compared to when Bukkit began and high-profile devs were releasing their plugins. The price we pay for accessibility, I'd guess. I remember when I made my first plugin, I struggled to think of something interesting to start off with. While not possible for all, it's nice to think big :).
     
  24. Offline

    aPunch

    To be honest, this is extremely irritating. There needs to be a stricter plugin review process before plugins are accepted from the Submissions forum. If this means more moderators are needed...*reluctantly raises hand*.....I'll volunteer.
     
  25. Offline

    MuisYa

    Good post, 100% agreed.
     
  26. Offline

    Adamki11s

    @aPunch True. In my opinion there are far to many people who create a simple plugin copied from a tutorial and publish it for the 'badge' of plugin developer. I'm not trying to imply that simple plugins are not worthy of being published but every plugin should have something new to contribute; not just recreating something useless or already done, hence this whole debate.
     
  27. Offline

    Celtic Minstrel

    Checkerboard is 8x8, and double chest is 6x9 not counting player inventory, so you could do it by using two rows of the player inventory. It wouldn't exactly be pretty though.
     
  28. Offline

    ichingpow

    I feel guilty :/

    I was extremely surprised to see RealCompass, my first plugin, get me Plugin Developer status. SimpleHat, however, causes the most guilt. There are at least 5 hat related plugins out there.

    Same here, I bet there are at least 10 plugins that do just that.
     
  29. Offline

    escape

  30. Offline

    Specops343

    Me too. That post is just disrespectful.

    Ontopic: I don't even think of that little purple tag under my name anymore. I feel guiltly now that I even released Simplewand, as it had been done a couple of times. As for Signshops and Bluetelepads, I just took them over as a favor, and don't deserve a tag for keeping them updated to the latest RB.

    Even more on topic: I hate plugin devs that wield that tag as a badge of pride, as it IS quite easy to get. There's quite a good chance on the guy on the post above yours, without the tag, knows more then you. Nevertheless, this isn't always true, but its quite possible.
     
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