Theory why bukkit takes so long to update to 1.7.2

Discussion in 'Bukkit Discussion' started by johnnywoof, Nov 3, 2013.


Do you agree with this?

  1. Yes I do!

  2. Maybe......

  3. Not at all!

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    Only as silly as making posts stating 'useless criticism' is somehow slowing down development... just as pointless is it not, or do you not consider your post just adding to the slowing down of development seeing that is the silliness that you believe.

    Just not you, of course :rolleyes:
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    It's possible to be grateful and impatient. This thread is also a great pressure release valve for the whole community.

    Please remember when you're worrying about lost money and revenue on your servers that bukkit does this all for free while others make hundreds of thousands of dollars off of this work. Please consider throwing some of the money you make using their project to help them out!
    ronharsh and drtshock like this.
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    Mojang is already working on 1.7.3. I think Bukkit is tired of these updates so quickly. I think many of these issues are on Mojang's side. I mean if you look at it, by time Bukkit 1.6.4 RB got released 1.7.2 was out.
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    The LA Baker

    I couldn't agree more.

    I find that hard to believe. You must have a maximum ETA. Will you still be working on it in a year? If 1.8 comes out, will you still be working on 1.7? "No ETA" is just a cop out IMO. Give is a high estimate, for example, "Bukkit 1.7 will be finished within 6 months".
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    IIRC that was because of 1.7 (structure saving and all that). Also, there were some infrastructure issues that delayed them getting a RB out sooner for 1.6...

    As far as Mojang goes, you can get the play-by-play:
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    I've been reading a lot of forums recently about how people want Bukkit for 1.7. The devs keep saying that they are working on it, and that there is not reliable ETA. All of this is true. People need to stop getting mad, stand back, and look at the facts before yelling at the Bukkit Team for going to slow.

    The Facts:

    Minecraft 1.7.2 is one of the biggest updates since 1.4 or even 1.3. This scale of update is huge. Mojang themselves said that they edit half a million lines of code while making this update. It is truly huge, but it is not Bukkit's fault, nor is it Mojang's. While making this update, Mojang listened to the community and added the long awaited stained glass, new biomes, etc. 1.7 was a community update and so Mojang should not be criticized for making it hard to update Bukkit.

    The Problem:

    The only thing I didn't cover was who made this problem. I say it is No one's fault. Mojang did it's job and Bukkit is doing their job. So stop whining and just wait! If you don't want to wait, then listen to this: Bukkit is a open source project, right. So if you really want to have a update GO TRY IT YOURSELF. SEE IF YOU CAN DO IT FASTER THAN BUKKIT! I BET YOU 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 DIAMONDS THAT YOU CAN'T!!!
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    This is hMod for alpha 1.2.0 all over again. (sigh)
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    All right everyone, listen up. I'm going to tell you why Bukkit is taking so long to update. It's because over 30,000 lines of code were added to Minecraft?!!!! that's an absolute ton of code! Maybe you all can stop complaining now and do bigger and better things.
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    Official word, as I've seen posted many times, is 500k...

    Lesson to be learned: When you underline something, make sure it's right.
  11. Pr4w and pilvimaa like this.
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    Maybe you should've read my post more carefully kid, it said OVER.
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    3,600,000 lines of code divided by 18 people divided by 6 weeks divided by 5 days per work-week equals...
    6666.66 lines of code per person per day. Damn dude, that's pretty impressive !!!
    And i do agree that the Bukkit developers should take their time.
  16. Us server owners can wait.
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    I'm on board with the entire "1.7 is a failure when it comes to the playerbase"...

    Mojang is building their own Mod/Plugin API... we all know this. They said that they had a good part of it embedded into 1.7.x code, but just not finalized and active. This means they're gonna be having their own plugin farm, like the Bukkit farm. Of course they won't be compatible, so Bukkit most likely has to "fix" (get rid of) a lot of their new API hooks that are designed for Mojang code, and not Bukkit code.

    That being said... Mojang has GOT to realize that their ardent playerbase are all using Bukkit... and by creating such sweeping changes, it delays CraftBukkit indefinitely...which in the end hurts Mojang...

    Minecraft is a "fad game"... long lasting, but a fad. It's like WoW... It's dying a slow, but quickening, death. It's like Loom Bands... one day they're the world's greatest thing, the next, they're in every corner store and the fad has weakened.

    Minecraft is losing vast numbers of players with 1.7.x simply because Bukkit can't update quick enough. That's not Bukkit's fault... it's Mojang's. But then again, if it's their goal to control all aspects of servers... Plugins, Hosting, etc... then an update like this needed to happen... to start to bring a sense of "inability to make things work" to the Bukkit team... so when Mojang releases their plugin store... server ops will go running to them.
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    FarmerKaine: In the back of my head, this is what I've been thinking, too. In the event that that happens, I'm relatively sure it will signal the beginning of the end of Minecraft. The current way things are -- the sort of bizarre sibling love between the main Mojang development yarn, the free (as in the sense of liberated, and beer) modding community, and sort of sole proprietor server ops -- is what has made Minecraft what it is. If Mojang wants to change the entire model to like an "app store" kind of scenario, most of the innovators will leave for more profitable ventures, and the juice will almost immediately run dry in the larger Minecraft community. Throw in the possibility of an EA level publicity backlash, and Mojang as a company will be screwed in short order.
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    I want to see your sources. I had read not long ago that the plugin API wasn't even started, and that they had to do lots of changes before they could.
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    I think he was trying to say that this update contained many of the "fix's" needed.
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    I asked Dinnerbone on twitter about the fixes that Mojang needed to make so Bukkit could update. He said "There aren't any!".
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    We already knew that, the problem isn't Mojang. The problem is they made many many many many ... many changes to the code.

    I do not know exactly, but I would guess it might be like rewriting all of the bukkit code.
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    I have a theory, but it's just a theory. And it's that... that it's a lot of work. I know I know I know! It's preposterous!
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    Mojang released 1.6.1 on July 1, let's say the other releases up to 1.6.4 were minor. That means they worked on 1.7 for at the very least from July 1st to Oct 25th (I know it's more).

    Looking at my calendar, that's about 4 months. We're talking 4 months, about full time, for let's say 3 people. So 12 months of code changed.

    Bukkit on the other hand doesn't work full time and they do it for free. I'm not sure how many are working on it, let's say 5 people. Even all combined, I don't think it equals 1 person full time.

    So, what I'm trying to say is, it's expected to take time in these conditions.
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    ZachBora Coding a an API for update shouldn't be as hard as coding the update itself. Even though the Bukkit team doesn't like to give out ETAs because they are "uncommunicable" I think it would be pretty obvious if it was going to take 4 months. If that were so, I'm sure someone would have told us. Therefore, I disagreed. I don't think it will take 4 months.
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    Mike1022 I never said it'd take 4 months. I said it took Mojang 4 months.

    Bukkit isn't just an API. There is also CraftBukkit.
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    ZachBora It sure sounded like you said 4 months+. As for updating CraftBukkit, that should be pretty easy.
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    Did you even see the code of craftbukkit? Did you see how much of it needs to be rewritten?
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    How could there be a "maximum ETA"? Whatever that term means. An ETA means when they're done, not when they give up on it, like your scenarios.

    How exactly are you or anyone else benefited by them saying "1.7 will be finished within 6 months?" That doesn't tell us anything that we don't already know. Bukkit has not taken 6 months to update in the past. Mojang doesn't even take that long to release a major update to the core game. Bukkit has sometimes been updated in a day depending on the update that was released.

    If they're going to say "we'll be done within 6 months" they might as well stick to saying nothing, as both would mean the same thing. They don't get paid for this, they don't work on it full time, their livelihoods do not depend on it. They get to it when they can. They do not answer to a boss that needs an ETA like at a real development job. We're lucky they do this at all. Seriously, if anyone else knows how to develop java and thinks they can do this faster, now is their time to shine and make a new Minecraft server and API and get everyone to move their plugins to it since the fine people at Bukkit who volunteer their time to this community are just "so slow."

    Anyway on to your other point, when 1.7 came, they were still doing some work on 1.6.4. And I imagine when 1.8 comes, they'll still be doing some bug fixing on 1.7 until they are ready to tackle 1.8 completely. So I don't understand your questioning that at all.
  30. Confronted with the vague some people go for the extremes :p.

    As i read from going over most of the posts/threads, the main points asked for seem NOT to be:
    - Exact eta.
    - Exact communication about every single step done.
    - No starting over nor iterating steps.
    - No mistakes.
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