Theory why bukkit takes so long to update to 1.7.2

Discussion in 'Bukkit Discussion' started by johnnywoof, Nov 3, 2013.

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Do you agree with this?

  1. Yes I do!

    33.0%
  2. Maybe......

    27.8%
  3. Not at all!

    39.2%
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  1. Offline

    Bobcat00

    TnT - Do you know if providing a 1.6.4 build that's compatable with 1.7.2 clients is a possibility? I'm not talking about a "protocol hack", but instead having the 1.7.2 protocol functionality, as it would be implemented in the final build, as a first step towards a complete 1.7.2 server.
     
  2. Offline

    PolarCraft

    Bobcat00 You would have to change the protocol's 1.6.4 to 1.7.2.
     
  3. Offline

    mpmumau


    Emotional problems and misunderstanding aside, all I hope is that the programmers at the top of this pyramid at least hear this message. This is the practical thing to do, and yes, I have to imagine, it would be possible. I'll leave it at that to avoid causing any more problems than I already have (for which I apologize -- it's just VERY high stress when you're up against the possibility of losing a lot of money while this is going on).
     
  4. Offline

    The_Fool76

    I'm not sure what kind of stages they could practically do though. It's not like they can just say "Ok we are only going to implement 15% of the API for the first build. Sorry if your plugin uses some of the other 85%."

    Even worse, It may be that in order to get from 15% to 20% they might have to re-write stuff they already 'finished'. So they can't even provide a progress indicator that would make sense to most people. (Can you imagine the reaction if they went from a posted %20 API implementation back to a %6 percent?)

    I just don't see how it would be practical for them to provide a piecemeal update that wouldn't end in blood and tears.

    As for those of you with coding experience, this is about as far from your normal programming project as you can get. I'm having trouble thinking of a legitimate job that would require you to reverse engineer code and then implement your own API on top of it. Maybe some legacy system support stuff and high level security testing but that's about it. Definitely not the kind of work your average code monkey would have done that's for sure.
     
  5. Offline

    Rockslide

    Still don't understand why Mojang doesn't take over Bukkit, or atleast supports it. Minecraft owes it's continuing popularity largly to Bukkit. I don't understand why the old Bukkit devs who now work for Mojang don't insist on Jeb they get involved in the Bukkit project.

    Minecraft should not update until Bukkit does. They should be released simultaneously.

    Why the heck doesn't anyone blame Mojang instead of the Bukkit volunteers??
     
    Europia79 likes this.
  6. Offline

    deltahat


    I think this is the heart of much of the stress over 1.7.2. A lot of server operators stand to lose a lot of donation and rank purchase money from fickle players who flock to servers that "support" 1.7.2.

    If there is so much money on the line, why not pay someone to help move the process along? The server is free. The plugins are free. If you are making enough money to be worried about the 1.7.2 upgrade, it would be prudent to invest some of that money into keeping your business alive. The alternative is to rage on the internet about how a bunch of unpaid volunteers aren't working fast enough to maintain your bottom line.
     
    apes likes this.
  7. Offline

    TnT Retired Staff

    We are only one mod in the Minecraft community. There are others out there and it would not be fair to them for us to get special treatment.

    I do not want anyone harassing Mojang over this update, or any other, on our behalf.
     
  8. Offline

    Bobcat00

    Actually, Mojang should ditch their own server and just have everyone use Bukkit. (I know, it ain't gonna happen.)
     
  9. Offline

    JMiahMan

    Because may help show appreciation, but I don't think it will get things done faster. According to the developers it's a tedious hard process. It would be sad if let's say I offered $50,000 and suddenly the next day 1.7.2 was release when it was supposedly going to take weeks. Don't get me wrong I see no issue with donating, and giving someone something for work, but something inside me believes they are trying doing what they can now (hopefully) any ways so throwing money at the issue may not get the returns that you're assuming it will.
     
  10. Offline

    robotnikthingy

    My guess is not only the net code is making it take long, but also the development of some kind of backwards compatibility wrapper thing for item ID's. without such a thing, all plugins which use item ID's would break now that mojang basically got rid of them
     
  11. Offline

    gabessdsp

    Finally have an update for 1.7.2 on the front page. It's more than there was before and it's finally something. Just reassuring really
     
  12. Offline

    Forgy

    TnT I think an explanation is due, instead of removing a post that broke no rules.
     
  13. Offline

    TnT Retired Staff

    Trolling and going off topic. This is why your posts were removed. It should be obvious.
     
  14. Offline

    kazblox

  15. Offline

    TnT Retired Staff

  16. Offline

    Bobcat00

    I think we're getting bored.

    Any of you Bukkit people go to Minecon? I saw one guy with an essentials chemistry flask thing attached to his credentials, but I didn't talk to him, so I don't know who he was.
     
  17. Offline

    kazblox

  18. Offline

    Jalau

    If you can't wait learn java and update it your own.... OR JUST **** WAIT!
     
  19. Offline

    ronharsh

    I am a long time user of Bukkit and Minecraft both, and have to first say that I am impressed by both the work of not only the official developers but the work of the community herein. I myself have been a software developer since 1997 and currently work in the computer field (as a software developer of course) and can say that once my company pulled a major update and over 3.6 million lines of code were changed for the web based and client application interface. That work took a team of 18 software engineers (myself included) right at about 6 weeks to complete and mind you we were being paid.

    However, I have never been forced to pay for Bukkit (but gladly would if it came down to it (yes I know this will never happen)) but I can honestly understand what the development team must be going through right now. To make matters worse it is not as though the development team has the Minecraft source code lying in front of them, so their task is exponentially complicated and they have to complete most of their work using the trial/error method which is quite cumbersome indeed.

    The changes introduced were not minor, in effect they were most major and therefore the development team (I am speculating) will have to either rewrite most of their existing codebase to comply/compensate for these changes not to mention add in hundreds of new methods/classes to add full support for version 1.7.2.

    I have extensive training in Java and program applications in it daily (as our company is currently converting all Java applications to HTML5 and C++) and know the complexities involved when programming on this framework. I myself have dabbled in plugin development, in fact my server runs 8+ plugins coded by myself for creature comfort and have even been considering releasing some of my plugins here on this site.

    I registered to the forum to make this single post curious as to why people are becoming so impatient waiting for a new update? I understand that some people run large scale server and even make income off of the donations, however the donations made using Bukkit as the backbone might not be the wisest solution, and if your community drops off your server due to a situation beyond your control than I would say good riddance to bad rubbish.

    Personally I support the Bukkit development team and appreciate all of their work and the time it must take to pull all of this together. I know your work is quite difficult and cumbersome to say the least, and I know that I might be hated for saying this, but take your time, don't rush nothing, even if it takes months we would all rather have a fully functioning device rather than one pushed out too early just to appease the masses.

    Keep up the exemplary work guys, and thank you!
     
    jorisk322 likes this.
  20. Offline

    Bobcat00

    I didn't realize that they essentially start from the beginning with each Minecraft release. I thought they had an established code base (like most projects) and would apply the necessary changes to add the new features, fix bugs, etc.
     
  21. Offline

    EdwardBailie

    Bukkit takes so long to update because they spend too much time on locking posts about the 1.7.2. You have to wait.
     
  22. Offline

    5h0ckw4ve

    My mind has been pretty much put at rest because of the announcement on the main page, I just wanted to say thanks for doing that as I appreciate it and I'm sure there are many more people who don't post but check back here each day that also appreciate it.

    When 1.7 comes out I will be making an affordable donation to the team.. I haven't monetised my own server but I have donated to other servers in the past that I've visited and liked so I feel it would be wrong of me to not support the team who make my own server possible.

    Thanks for the hard work and just know that there are plenty of people like me who are extremely grateful for your hard work.
     
    JaguarJo likes this.
  23. Offline

    The_Fool76

    Depends on the nature of the changes. If Mojang just adds a few extra blocks or animals it's fairly trivial for them to match up the previous de-obfuscation with the current code and add the new stuff. If however Mojang does a substantial re-write of code (like they did for 1.7.2) it more or less puts them back at square one for the affected code. Not only do they have to de-obfuscate the hard way, they also have to write a brand new API layer to match up the new code to their current API.

    Hopefully they got most of the re-factoring for the API done this go round and we won't be looking at a similar situation for 1.8.
     
    1mpre55 likes this.
  24. Offline

    apes

    this guy needs to release a working version of bukkit within 24hrs or get him banned. (i'm speaking for the whole bukkit community here, believe me i checked. except i didn't).
     
  25. Offline

    ronharsh

    apes I wish, but I think the Bukkit team is doing a great job as is. :p
     
    apes and GlaswegianGamer like this.
  26. Offline

    Mike1022

    I agreed. If they did that, then you couldn't use some of the most basic plugins like Essentials or WorldEdit, or even the fun ones like DisguiseCraft because they use to much of the API. Anyway if they tried that, then plugin developers would start to try to find ways to make their plugin only use the amount of the API available, which would make plugins take a lot longer to update. I totally agreed with you, it would be hell if they did that.
     
  27. Offline

    Forgy

    I think that you need to learn the difference between trolling(misleading) and sarcasm. The winking face signified sarcasm. We shall see though about the time of the release. I am beginning to believe my own sarcasm.
     
  28. Offline

    mistklmusic

    All these people complaining about "losing money" because you cannot update to a new update need to stop. How on earth are you losing money? You still have a 1.6.4 working server and people can still connect to your server by just changing the version that has been implemented in the Minecraft client. Why do we need to be updated to the latest build when 1. It takes a shit ton of time to update, 2. YOU DO NOT NEED TO, and 3. No one is forcing you to be in the latest builds.

    Just my two cents...
     
  29. Offline

    andrewkm

    If your losing "a lot" of donations due to an MC update - your running your server wrong.
    You keep track of posts quite well ;)
    Show Spoiler
    lol
     
  30. Offline

    MetalGearDaner

    Stop arguing for a Update... It's very silly, you are only slowing down the 1.7 development with useless criticisms... If you are unhappy, go and use the MinecraftServer official, or update the hole 1.7.2 yourself; if not, shut up, please...

    It's awesome how arrogant and ungrateful are the people.
     
    russjr08 likes this.
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