Theory why bukkit takes so long to update to 1.7.2

Discussion in 'Bukkit Discussion' started by johnnywoof, Nov 3, 2013.


Do you agree with this?

  1. Yes I do!

  2. Maybe......

  3. Not at all!

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    Matt Rock

    I don't mind that it's taking a while to get to 1.7.2. I do wonder, though, if the massive changes might allow somehow for better boat/ ship mods to be created. I've been dying for a real multiplayer ship mod since I first started playing Minecraft. The few shipbuilding mods we have for Bukkit now are a bit campy, with jittery block-to-block movement, rather than, say, having the engine recognize a large player-built ship as an entity and controlling it with the same mechanics that operate the proper, vanilla boats. Long story short, I'm wondering how these changes might improve upon the plugins themselves. If it takes longer to get that potential out of the new code, it's totally worth it to me!
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    Have you even read my post? Its called changing the protocol code you idiot. Every server with 1.7.2 is basically an unsupported bukkit 1.6.4, with high frequent crashes. If you think bukkit is not good enough to run their project, when you don't even know how the servers got 1.7, then get away from here.
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    Can we just stop this fighting? Mojang put a huge rewrite on the code of many things that affected how bukkit will work. So be patient and wait for bukkit to strike back!
    1mpre55 and GlaswegianGamer like this.
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    People who aren't willing to give the Bukkit devs time to do the proper job of updating don't deserve to use Bukkit in the first place.
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    Just like all other topics? Why lock a perfectly good discussion. It's nice to actually read what people have to say and what the development team have to say, even if it's not the information you were wanting, just knowing they are there and reading what people have to say is enough for most, impatient, people.
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    Keep in mind, like a lot of the other posts already state. The dev team and the people who moderate the forums right now are two separate groups, so the admins may convey the info, maybe, but they posting doesn't interfere or slow the update process. Though after the update is released I'd LOVE to hear what the dev team actually has to say.
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    Let's hope Mojang doesn't screw up with the mod api so we can all stop relying on Bukkit. But that's probably not going to happen. Vanilla server is amazingly badly done, but perhaps it's just a java thing, who knows.
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    Or they could just commit their changes to github :p
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    i don't mean to be rude but if it was a java thing then bukkit would not be any better off since it as well is java based
  11. There had already been a significant amount of casualties on getsatisfaction for this :9.

    To comment on some things.
    * Money
    If people depend that much on money, then they should spend more money in average to support the Bukkit team or maybe hire a developer and try to place that one inside of Bukkit :).
    * It's for free, so don't complain.
    The plugin developers for most work for free as well, most server owners too. Many would work with other projects if that gave them a better experience. So i am not claiming that mistakes are made, but i think it is legitimate to deduce that all involved share some responsibility to keep groups linked. Not meaning any obligation for the people involved, just trying to remind of the physics of a community which this projects consists of and receives money for.
    * Random people install the first development build.
    That's right, thanks for noticing. With recommended builds taking a long time (naturally), this can't be too easily resolved. There might be ways to be more strict on Tickets that are made based on development builds, but i assume that has been discussed by the team, though i did not stumble into any piece of information about such, yet.
    * ETA
    No thing like that on this update. A statistics page could be interesting, but that would be an extra project.
    * Random status updates don't help.
    They can help, blogs and things like Twitter have to do with such. Many developers or "companies" take some time to inform people about something they do, you can take it as "advertising" and "keeping people with you". Specifically in an open-source community project, for which one could say there exists no obligation at all for people to produce anything, and where people are not even receiving money to live from for it, it would be good to keep people minimally informed so they keep up the trust to stay with the project. "Minimally informed" already applies with "working on it", i still would opt for some kind of (read only) development blog. Of course it is the choice of the Bukkit team how and how far they involve the community at what stage of the project and if they publish parts of their decision making or even involve the community in efforts to find solutions to problems - any choice has to be respected.
    drtshock likes this.
  12. I am wondering what went wrong with the work between bukkit and mojang? I Bukkit makes a great work, but sometimes i think it goes slowly forward, because a new release of minecraft is nearly out before bukkit can get a new version of bukkit releases out. (no affence developers).
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    You guys need to calm down.
    The people of Bukkit are doing their best and are very smart people. You don't have the right to say they are being lazy, because you don't know how hard it is to do what they do. The update is more complex then you think there are new biomes, textures, fishing mechanics has change, new items, enchants, and the big ones(I think) setting menu has changed, the new multiplayer menu with icons etc, and all the bug fixes that mojang does every update. This is a pretty big update and they are doing their best to bring it out perfectly. They work for little to no profit and you guys are complaining. So think before you start yelling at them for doing their best for something you all love and need.
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    I wouldn't mind this thread being open, but seeing the people that don't realise that a project (if Bukkit can be called that) this big takes alot of time, and those people are getting angry, and then the patient people step in and say "stop complaining, they (Bukkit team) said it will be out when it's out", then the impatient people get mad at them and then a full on argument breaks out.. I don't know if that has started yet, but I know it will eventually, so to save people from probably embarrassing them selfs, I think that this forum thread should be locked. (and any other forum related to 1.7 that will just start a fight).

    Although, as this is my opinion, some may agree to disagree, but I'm just laying my opinion gently out in the lawn for people to read and think about before something bad happens.
    1mpre55 likes this.
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    I've been doing software engineering for over three decades, so I have some appreciation of the scope of the work. And modifying 600,000 lines of code in one release is mind boggling.

    Having said that, it sure would be nice to have a 1.6.4 Bukkit that runs with the 1.7.2 client so I don't lose any more of the few players I have left.
    DerBlockBuilder likes this.
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    That's all I'm saying, too, haha. I don't quite have a full decade in as a professional programmer yet, but I too appreciate the complexity of that task. Still doesn't change the fact that we server ops are left out high and dry.
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    Hell no... I blinked and my screen is spammed with Lots of text that all says the same thing
    "Just wait"
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    The Bukkit Team has never learned Netty before, and they are taking a long time to figure out where goes where, goes to x.class, etc. Be patient.

    A lot of servers are all but dead at this point due to the impending 1.7 release of bukkit. Everyone knows most servers will be doing a full reset, so they have gone off to play other mod packs or vanilla. Minus the reset this happens with every new release of bukkit. As soon as 1.7 is out the server will pick up again. All we can do is wait cause if it's not ready it's simply not ready.. I dont want an unfinished product. Play vanilla minecraft until bukkit 1.7 if you are bored. Keep up the good work all. Hopefully my server will get to live again soon
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    Lol god, I am sorry, even though you're somewhat right in repeating this broken record to the absolutely clueless out there, I've read so many similar posts on so many different forums of different types in the past year. DayZ: It'll be out when it's done. Godus: It'll be done when it's done. Pick-any-Steam-early-release: It'll be done when it's done. Truly, we all get it. Yet, this is just garbage, self-evident information. It's like going up to a smoker on the street and saying "Those cause cancer, you know?" WE. GET. IT. Stop feeling like you're gaining browny points with some digital deity for repeating the party lines, if for no other reason than sparing us the 30 seconds it takes us to read this non-informative kind of tripe. The worst part is that SOME of us know even more than people like you what goes into large programming projects, and yet we have to read crap like this. GET A LIFE! It's like you're trying to lecture people on problems that you yourself only understand 10%! When you've walked a mile in the shoes of the server ops who have to take on the full effect of these delays, THEN I'd say you have earned the right to lecture us. Until then, rest your typing fingers.

    Personally, I earn a living programming. I don't have the luxury of telling my clients "Your web site will be done when I feel like it's complete!" I earn money from working on deadlines. MOST PROGRAMMERS work on deadlines, lol. It's true that not every project is 100% predictable (in fact most aren't). But it's not like programmers sit around worshiping some magical fire until the gods of the digital world deem them worthy to receive the secrets of some magical code. There IS *some* predictability to it, and a massive delay and a lack of any deadlines can cause more problems than would otherwise exist.

    When you become a programmer for Google THEN you can set imaginary deadlines and live in this fairy land where time doesn't exist, Subway caters your every lunch and you get to ride the water park rides in the lobby during break time. UNTIL THEN....the rest of us live and/or die by deadlines. So KILL THIS MYTH!
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    Why don't you guys just use a protocol hack and disable all the 1.7.2 items until Bukkit 1.7.2 comes out? Popular servers are already using that.
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    We've tried it in the past. Believe me, if there were any other solution that was on par with waiting for Bukkit to get it's *stuff* together, we would have already done it. And we're already well on our way to researching options on top of that. Those servers who are doing that are not terribly bright, and are probably run by 10-year-olds, in my opinion.
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    mpmumau you make me laugh...hahaha. Your argument is ridiculously invalid because you mentioned you get paid to meet deadlines. Bukkit is doing this for free in their spare time so they have no obligation to impatient guys/girls like you who throw their toys out the cot. Pay them first and then maybe consider being a jerk, but until then, stick with a solid 1.6.4 or wait quietly.

    Flippen p#$ses me off. Childish brats who's parents gave them everything and now they think its their right to demand things from others for free. Welcome to the real world.
    1mpre55 likes this.
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    I don't think anyone is "demanding" anything. We're just making suggestions to the Bukkit staff if they could do a prioritized, staged implementation of 1.7.2.
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    Two weeks!!!!! I lost all my players, they have gone to vanilla server or to servers with protocol hack. I had 50 players every time I joined server. But now I have 2-3 players. Its reason to HATE 1.7.2!!!!!!!! I cant wait anymore, I cant be patient, I lost everything.
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    I highly doubt that.

    Just be patient, if you don't know how to be patient, you shouldn't be running a Minecraft server. Patience is needed with players. Especially younger ones.
    Besides, if you had 50 players online all the time, then you're obviously in their server lists, wait until you update, then they will join again.
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    This is one reason why I wanted this forum thread closed... This is the point that the arguing comes..
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    You should work on building player commitment. My playerbase has not changed since the update. I informed my players in advance and everything worked out great. I still use 1.6. My dedicated players are still present and the random guests come and go. Perhaps Factions/spleef/mlp isn't the best way to make permanent players since many other servers offer that.
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    • Inappropriate Behavior
    Seriously? STFU. Only person I see giving a lecture is this person who wrote 5 paragraphs of complete bullshit. Nobody cares you are a programmer making html websites. This has nothing to do with other games. Your arguments are cluttered with logical fallacies. You aren't even worth my time.
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    Here's my theory.

    It's really F***ing hard to do. And they do it in their free time.
    1mpre55 likes this.
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    I have left this thread open so far as it has allowed the community to vent their frustrations about waiting for a new CraftBukkit build to come out for 1.7.2. That said, this discussion has moved from being an avenue to vent frustrations and provide constructive criticisms to being a thread where people start to flame others. If this continues, I will lock this thread.
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