The State of Bukkit (as of 22/3/11)

Discussion in 'Bukkit Help' started by Afforess, Mar 22, 2011.

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    First off, I'm not trying to spread FUD. I love Bukkit. I've donated a small amount to bukkit. I love the community here.

    But I can't help but feel troubled at the state of development of late. Bug reports are being ignored, or worse, answered with snide comments that do nothing to solve the problem (from one staff member in particular who I will not mention). Pull Request after Pull Request on GitHub sits ignored. The Git repo has sit pretty much silent the past 10 days. Issues with Bukkit are causing me to deal with lots of bug reports that are actually issues with Bukkit, not a particular plugin.

    Now, if the staff are too busy with real lives, I can empathize. Life as a student is hecketic, and I can't imagine pulling a real job AND maintaining this kind of project. But I feel that if real life is conflicting, then Bukkit staff should announce such, and temporarily step down, until their life cools down. That way, the remaining members can assign volunteers who can pick up the slack (I'm not volunteering mind you. ;) )

    Even If the problem stems from some other source, please inform the community. 95% of us are sane, and can handle calm, rational announcements, even if it's telling us development will be slowing down.

    For the tl;dr folks: Bukkit Staff, please keep us informed. Otherwise we can only assume the worst.

    Author Update (24/3/11): Development seems to have spurred into action again, which is good news. While I still would appreciate more disclosure (we don't care if it's technical), it seems my fears are unfounded.
    cyklo likes this.
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    I agree that this is what it looks like, and that Bukkit is a great project, and that I have great respect for the people running it.

    My perspective is mainly on the bug tracker; I don't know what the state of the bug tracker was before it's downtime, but it hardly seems to have been touched since it came back up. It's also a little confusing having both leaky and a github tracker - I'm not sure which we are supposed to be using (I assumed leaky), but there is definitely a different mix of people using either one.

    I'd also like to add that development seems to be a very opaque process - there seems to be no centralised public developer discussion (like a mailing list, for instance) and the commit messages are often very vague, with no idea what they are fixing or what their intended purpose is.

    If people are having trouble keeping up, then there seems to be plenty of highly competent plugin developers who might be able and willing to contribute, even if it is just bug fixes here and there. But you need to have at least someone monitoring the process for this to work well.
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    I have to agree with the OPs main point.. mainly on the aspect of some of the bigger known bugs with Bukkit getting ignored / not fixed / not prioritized properly. I can think of several bugs right off the bat but won't name them, as (one would hope) the bukkit team is indeed watching either github or Leaky and know what their users want to have fixed the most.

    You've got a following of hundreds of people developing thousands of plugins for Bukkit, my guess would be easily 10 or more people at least would be fully willing to help out. Perhaps with things such as fixing / implementing various aspects of FOR YOU, so you guys can focus on the coding and less on the website. Which, by the way - in its current state - is easily enough to understand how to get plugins, etc, so wasting any time on that when there are important bugs to be fixed is silly. AKA if it ain't broke, don't fix it... especially when there are steaming heaps of... bugs plaguing Bukkit.

    Edit: perhaps an auto-ban-IP feature for bad packets being sent would be a good idea, if thats possible.
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    Grum Bukkit Team Member

    I've been working on a MAAAAAJOR commit which has taken a lot of time for fellow team members as well. It is finally done and relatively well tested and probably next to the persistance work we're doing atm the biggest reason not many pull requests have been handled.

    Also @Affloress, feel free to pop by on irc, usually makes it easier to communicate :)
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    Love you guys <3
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    Grum Bukkit Team Member

    The reaction above only fuels my need to break it! =D
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    I'm always on IRC on the wrong time, you silly Europeans. I'm curious to hear about the new commit though.
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    @Grum his name is Afforess not Affloress :D
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    Long story short: We miss you guys, give us some newsssss ^^
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    Be careful what you wish for, as this new update is going to break quite a few plugins.
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    @TnT I'm a plugin Developer so I always like the challenge ^^
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    Qouted for alerts. When does a new update come then?
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    @andre_9796 That's a company secret, here have a [cake] while you wait ^^
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    What a joke man. Thumbs up
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    While I'm only a moderator and have as much knowledge as you about Bukkit development, I can say that the team is still active. But they're working on huge things. Cogito was working on Persistence last night if I'm correct.
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    My only issue is the lack of professionalism and biased statements because 'someone isnt feeling too-hot, today'

    Other than that, I'm glad that this team has the numbers to keep it going day after day.
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    ray landers

    allot comes to mind that i want to say, but after writing and rewriting what i want to say i condensed it down to the following.

    i like minecraft quite a bit.
    several time i have set up a server on my other computer to see just what it takes to have one up and going.
    for many of the people here it is a small task i am sure.
    to others it is just not posible.
    then there are those of us that fit somewhere in between.

    hmod was great and bukkit looks like it will be an honorable spin off.
    much can be said about both, i'll leave that to others to say.

    but there is a scenario that fits the way things have progressed with bukkit development lately.
    by lately i mean since the BIG meeting with UN-NAMED minecraft officials.

    allot was NOT said about that meeting and so to fill in the blanks is pure speculation.
    allow me to inject something into those blank spaces.

    the meeting goes something like this;

    minecraft officials [hereafter known as MO]
    lets get right down to business.

    bukkit people [hearafter known as BP]
    great that's what we had in mind also.

    in the past lawsuits against people screwing around with comercial products has been hampered with not knowing who the criminals were.
    you have come here today and we know your real names and real faces.
    with that in mind we are willing to comprimise from a position of power.
    your work will continue under our control.
    nothing else needs to be said and thank you for showing up.
    security will escort you from the property.

    but, but, this is not what we were expecting.

    guards, show them out.
    and by the way you are not allowed to describe details of the events in this meeting.

    --- end meeting

    ok, so this is a little dark and paranoid on my part.
    but considering what has been said about the meeting and what has been going on since then, this scenario DOES fit.
    nothing that has been said contraindicates this as a possible description of events.

    before unleashing vile comments upon me, please try to show that the above events COULD NOT be what happened in the meeting.

    i am not here to trash bukkit or minecraft, but this is business.
    business means money.
    money means control and control means the lawyers always win no matter which side they are on.

    so maybe my blood sugar level is a little off and you can make up any reason you like for why i have nothing worthwhile to say here, but at least consider it.
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    Completely insane. Additionally, the burden of proof for your scenario is on YOU, not US. You must prove to US that the above events transpired, not the other way around.

    I also notice you failed to support your hypothesis (I will not call them theories...) with subtle things like FACTS.

    IMO, good thing I said "95%" of us are sane in the OP.
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    Oh shit am I late to the tin-foil hat parade?

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    I enjoy how this thread went from "What's the progress on Bukkit - I haven't seen anything in a while" to "Bukkit is being bitch slapped around by Mojang."
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    i give it a 7.5

    a little over the top
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    [zombie] WAIT WAIT ray landers is SREDNAL YAR backwards the conspiracy thickens uhuhuh [zombie]
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    Grum Bukkit Team Member

    We actually explained in full what transpired during the one meeting we had. It seems little and it was little. I think both sides left disappointed. After that meeting we've had no (official nor unofficial) contact with Mojang. We just had Jens in our internal dev channel and the results of that has been clearly visible through the fixes we provided towards Mojang. The ball is in Mojang's park, we're neither holding out on anyone nor not allowed to talk about it. There is just nothing relevant to be said besides what we already have.

    When we know more, you will know more.
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    @Grum You say you and the team are working on large things, but there's still a LOT of pull requests that fix bugs, both minor and major (World comparison anyone?). Even if there's a large portion of the team working on larger things, I still think there should still be somebody who reads over Leaky reports, deals with pull requests, etc.
    Because as it is there's been a pull request by me that fixes a major issue (Having two instances of a world is pretty major if you ask me) that has been un-touched by staff for four days, nobody has commented, nobody has merged it, nothing. No staff have commented on the Leaky report for that bug either. For those of us who are trying to help you guys out, atleast for me personally, that makes it seem like you just don't care.

    TL;DR - It seems like the Bukkit team doesn't really care about other people trying to help fix bugs.
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    To be fair, in the past day or two there actually has been a bit of movement on the pending pull requests, and it looks like a large patchseries is being pushed in at the moment (event restructuring?). Hopefully this is the start of a rolling ball! Your patch is this one, right? That looks like a good patch.

    Grum, don't get worked up over the tin-foil-hat thing, nobody sensible actually believes you are propagating a conspiracy.
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    While I'm not a Bukkit dev, I can tell you the devs do care a great deal about the bug fixes.

    You really reminded me of this with your comment:
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    Build 568 brakes all plugins!!!
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    Yes, yes it does. They did say it would.
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    @TnT I'm just stating my opinion. When you spend a lot of time digging through code trying to find the cause of an issue, something that has been an issue for at least a month and a half, and something that makes coding plugins a pain in the ass, and then your fix gets ignored for 4+ days, yeah, it seems like they're ignoring the community and the people who provide patches.

    And in regards to your link, I find that quite rude for a community staff member.
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    You're easily offended then.
    garglebutt likes this.
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