The future of Bukkit. What are we going to do as a community now that Bukkit has expired?

Discussion in 'Bukkit Discussion' started by Tecno_Wizard, Feb 18, 2015.

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  1. Offline

    Tecno_Wizard

    [​IMG]
    I think we all can admit by now that Bukkit as an open source project run by this group of people is over. Yes, Spigot is still updating it, but lets be honest, it's not the same. Many alternatives are popping up all over the place since the DMCA by wolverness and many are relying on the Spigot fork of CraftBukkit. If I remember correctly almost the entire Bukkit team jumped on with Sponge. I completely understand why Wolverness did what he did, but he needs to realize that it didn't work. He ended up shooting Bukkit with a silver bullet, and I highly doubt that Microsoft cares at all.

    This is not a post saying "GREAT BALLS OF FIRE! BUKKIT'S DEAD!", it's a post asking for discussion of what opinions people have on how this community should move forward.

    I am personally looking forward to the innovation of some of these new server softwares, but should we just hitchhike with Spigot's fork of CraftBukkit?

    Go ahead, discuss. I posted this out of curiosity of what opinions people have. If anyone is offended by this (and I don't know how you would), just don't post.
     
    tremor likes this.
  2. Offline

    TheEntropy

    @Tecno_Wizard I saw Bukkit as something more than just an Minecraft server software. I saw it as an learning opportunity for people who wanted to learn Java. It was so satisfying to make a change in code and see it make a difference in a video game world. I'm hoping that the development communities for the future server software will be inviting, just like Bukkit's was.
     
    FisheyLP, tremor and ChipDev like this.
  3. Offline

    bwfcwalshy Retired Staff

    Not sure what the community will do but when Trident comes out I will be there developing. I will still stay on the Bukkit Forums but I probably wont be as active.
     
  4. Offline

    Tecno_Wizard

    @bwfcwalshy, I was on the same page. The hard part is going to be getting server owners to switch though. They will stay with what they are familiar with unless they can be convinced that Trident or these others are better somehow
    @TheEntropy, more than half of my java knowledge came from working with bukkit.
     
  5. Offline

    timtower Moderator Moderator

    I will stay loyal to Bukkit till the end.
    And when it is gone then I will probably just jump to a different game.
     
    TGRHavoc and mrCookieSlime like this.
  6. Offline

    mrCookieSlime Retired Staff

    I completely agree with timtower, I will also be staying here till the end.
    And if this end is here, I might stick with minecraft but will probably go back to Forge and make Mods instead.
    But I don't know, maybe I will also just jump to a different game.
     
    timtower likes this.
  7. Offline

    teej107

    I also want to support Trident. They have talented developers working on it and it looks really promising. Spigot is the only reason that Bukkit still has it's user base now, but I don't want to stick with server software that is finding loopholes in laws just so it can stay alive.
     
  8. Offline

    mactso

    Ultima online continued for over a decade with a small number of users. I'd say if you love bukkit with particular plugins and have a copy then keep doing it.

    If you don't- well there's world of tanks, whatever else is just coming out, spigot now, perhaps trident by next september
     
  9. Offline

    Tecno_Wizard

    That's one of the major things that bother me about spigot. The other being that they have really just been a leech to bukkit's hard work for a long time.
     
  10. Offline

    MrAwellstein

    I'm moving onto Spigot. It's the closest thing left, and @md_5 knows what he's doing. Also,

    First, you can't leach off of an open sourced project; the reason why it's open sourced is so people can make their own versions, and do with it what they want with it. Hence, Open Sourced.

    Second, Spigot seems to be keeping what Bukkit is, alive. Think of it this way, Bukkit's API, and core elements are alive because a developer decided that he wanted to make something, that was open sourced, better. Considering that Microsoft won't continue Bukkit, or anyone else, the most we can hope for is to move onto a fork.
     
  11. Offline

    Tecno_Wizard

  12. Offline

    Bobcat00

    Bukkit was a leech to Mojang's hard work for a long time. Bukkit didn't write their own server, they just leeched off a closed-source program.
     
  13. Offline

    MrAwellstein

    How so?
     
  14. Offline

    Tecno_Wizard

    @Bobcat00, touche.

    @MrAwellstein, Spigot was also issued a DMCA notice by Wolverness and was down for quite some time. Instead of dealing with it properly, they moved to some obscure country that refused to sign the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (acronym sound familiar?). So technically their work is still illegal in a sense, they just avoided conviction. That's why the Spigot mirror sites with compiled spigot jars are illegal. Anyone know what country they went to BTW?
     
  15. Offline

    Bobcat00

    IANAL, but the DMCA notice was based on CraftBukkit/Spigot being packaged with proprietary code (something that CraftBukkit did all along and Mr. Wolfe didn't seem to think it was a problem until Mr. Loo wanted to quit). With the new build process, the Spigot folks are not packaging CraftBukkit/Spigot code with any non-open-source code, they're simply providing the source code, patches, and tools.

    The country of which you speak is Romania, which is not obscure; it's a member of the European Union.
     
  16. Offline

    MrAwellstein

    From my understanding it is being released legally, considering the fact that Spigot is now pretty much doing what MCP does, which is takes the Server.jar and de-obfuscates it, and then patches it with its own classes. That's why you can't just download Spigot, you have to download BuildTools. Yes actually distributing it yourself is illegal but building it yourself isn't (same with Bukkit at this point, if you still have a fork of the source code). So technically, they did deal with it properly by changing to a more legal way of obtaining Spigot.
     
  17. Offline

    ChipDev

    • I find Bukkit an extremely good way to practice good skills in java, and learn how to use API's good enough... Inside of a very great game.. Minecraft
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2015
  18. Offline

    xTrollxDudex

    It's a great way to practice your English too! (Not meant to insult, I leave stuff out of papers I type as well :p)
     
    ChipDev likes this.
  19. Offline

    tremor

    The news on the Microsoft front has been relatively quiet. Just this week saw a few news articles about how Minecraft has removed the requirement for Java and is packaging it in the installer.. and another article about Microsoft wanted a universal platform for Minecraft so that you can play the same session from PC, XBox and Mobile (Probably Windows Phone / Tablets, not Android or iOS)... It looks like they might be shifting code base to C#, lack of any new development news directed at the existing developer community just seems like a bad omen for the future direction of Minecraft as a whole. Other than that, crickets.

    As someone who runs a server, I prefer that default clients are able to connect without mods or forge... that's why a solution like Bukkit was so special. In the dust-up last year I notice Mojang said they owned Bukkit.. so de facto does this now mean Microsoft owns Bukkit? It seems like if they wanted to, they could snap a finger and wave a wand and this DMCA business would be over... so it's obviously not on their priority radar to keep the developer and small server owner community engaged.

    It would be interesting to know what the Curse, Bukkit, Mojang, Microsoft relationship really is, in some kind of flowchart and diagram...
     
  20. Offline

    pookeythekid

    @tremor Shifting to C#? Wouldn't that mean server mods can't be Java anymore? In that case, that kinda sucks for Java developers who aren't C# pros. Also, I really don't want to start some huge debate here, but I'd like to make this comment: I'm not entirely sure Microsoft could have simply ended the DMCA business.
     
  21. Offline

    tremor

    The C# was just some speculation, but it would be inline with Microsoft's ambitions to port to a more MS-centric code base. As far as the DMCA that really is a topic for a different thread, but I think if a company like MS saw any value in seeing Bukkit continue they would have made it happen... since they didn't, one can assume continuing Bukkit is not in the new owners of Minecraft's interest - which means the answer to the OP is - the future of Bukkit is pretty much what we see on Bukkit right now.
     
    pookeythekid likes this.
  22. Offline

    Bobcat00

    On the other hand, CraftBukkit, Spigot, et al have been on thin ice from a legal standpoint all along, and Microsoft certainly has enough lawyers and money to shut down all non-Microsoft Minecraft implementations. Since they haven't done so, it appears they're happy with the extra money Minecraft makes from the free labor contributed by CraftBukkit/Spigot. For now.
     
    TheEntropy likes this.
  23. Offline

    quakemaster1209

    C# would be bad idea it would completely remove cross-platform support considering C# is essentially a perversion of C that only runs on Microsoft owned OSes.

    it would be better to keep it java or switch to another code with cross-platform support such as C++
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2015
    MrAwellstein and pookeythekid like this.
  24. Offline

    Tailbiter

    Bashing C# is fun and all but it ignores the fact that it's standardised, open source, and so on. It is not a perversion of C any more than Java, C++, Objective C and others are. Considering the legal clusterf with Oracle-Google and the API, Java isn't much safer either.


    Also, can you imagine the headache of beginners having to manage their own memory? lol.


    Personally, I like the fork. Fork, fork, fork!
     
    MrAwellstein likes this.
  25. Offline

    Tecno_Wizard

    @Tailbiter, oh geez. Never have a beginning programmer manage their own memory. If I can barely understand it, the new devs DEFINITELY can't.
     
    DJSkepter likes this.
  26. Offline

    tremor

    You mean I can't just do this?

    char buffer[1073741824];
     
  27. Invisible

    nverdier

    Because that line is all you have to do for memory management.
     
  28. Offline

    Tecno_Wizard

    @tremor, again, i work with java, so i didn't even know it was that.
     
  29. Offline

    MrAwellstein

    If Minecraft went over to another language (C, C++, or even C#), we could still have our servers. Java and other languages can still connect to eachother. It's more work, but, its possible.
    Edit (SideNote): Java is pretty similar to C#.

    This made me laugh a bit too hard. XD
     
    teej107 likes this.
  30. Offline

    teej107

    Proof: http://mc-server.org/
     
    MrAwellstein likes this.
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