Please remove Recommended Build. Bukkit has not released yet there is no Recommended Build!

Discussion in 'Bukkit Help' started by Kane, Mar 27, 2011.

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  1. Offline

    Kane

    Bukkit is here to be tested guys. This Recommended Build stuff has prevented this. Grum wants me to test something for example. Sorry Grum now that this rarer bug can only be tested in a large scale and of course I need certain plugins that's don't update only for Recommended Builds we are screwed..

    I really never liked it nor wanted it. Being a large server you think I would right? NO Bukkit has not released its in a major development and testing stage.

    So please remove it ;)
     
  2. Offline

    captainawesome7

    what is this? i don't even...
     
  3. Offline

    Intelli

    Indeed. There are MAJOR issues with the latest builds. However, no one has noticed, because no one is using them, because they're not "recommended builds".
     
  4. Offline

    Plague

    And that IS a desired thing because people finally stopped crying so much about plugins not working for them.
     
  5. Offline

    Andre_9796

    And what do you exactly want? Plugin devs write to RB's and if there are no ones? Its the choice of bukkit team and i dont think they do what you want them to.
     
  6. Offline

    LucidLethargy

    As someone who requested recommended builds, I don't even know how to respond to this... Suffice to say I am a fan of recommended builds as it lets me know those are stable and don't have major issues. I will say I'd like to see them more stable though, as this recent build is causing crashes on my server pretty often (every 4-12 hours after a fresh restart.)
     
  7. Offline

    Paah

    Want to update your plugin to work with the new PLAYER_INTERACT event? Well too bad, because RB is still 556 and your plugin won't work with that if you update. So either you are forced to halt the development to the latest RB, or deal with immense amounts of QQ. "pluGin d0nt w0rk b0o0! bad plugin! you bad!"
     
  8. Offline

    Plague

    That doesn't even make sense. I'ts like saying "wanna update to the new Windows Aero? too bad, you have to wait for windows 7 to be released!" Well DUH!
    Don't you all get that bukkit builds are actually just some code put together in a matter of minutes/hours and not even properly tested? Just freaking wait for the proper recommended build to be out. You still have working Bukkit and minecraft.
     
  9. Offline

    mughi

    while we are whining about waiting, why can't i reply again in less than 30 seconds?!!! why? :)

    (yes, i know it is a spam control issue.. no, i don't actually have a problem with it)
     
  10. Offline

    den

    I would be more enthusiastic about RBs if the current one didn't have some really annoying bugs that are fixed in the later builds, but no one supports them because they aren't RBs.

    Invisible players being the big one right now. I haven't seen this much login/logout spam since entire chunks being invisible on the client was a common bug.
     
  11. Offline

    THEK

    Recomended builds are a good thing! You shouldn't need to test everything individually. Imagine if Minecraft force a release upon us every time they changed a tiny bit of code! It would be horrific.
     
  12. Offline

    SpaceManiac

    Before recommended builds, every single server owner and plugin dev had to choose one at random and hope it worked with their plugins. Now, plugin devs can release for recommended builds which nearly all users will have, and get their plugins ready for the next upcoming recommended build without having to immediately release. Users can know that the plugins have been tested on their specific build. (Some plugins have a history of adding new features and simultaneously breaking compatibility with the latest RB and then releasing, which is a shame.)
     
  13. Offline

    AgentKid

    I agree, keep reccommended builds as it makes it easier on the plugin developers and on the server administrators (for the most part)
     
  14. Offline

    tekac

    I'm ready for them to update the Recommended build.. I keep hoping that they'd fix this stupid Block Lag issue. They're up to #591 now and we're still on #556. With no plugins being able to work after #556, we can't test out the newer builds!

    Fail :mad:
     
  15. Offline

    SpaceManiac

    @tekac That's the point. As we speak, plugin devs are (hopefully) preparing their plugins to be ready for the next RB, so that when it comes out (with the bugfixes) they'll be compatible. If you want to "test" the newer builds, you have to deal with incompatibilities until the next RB and associated plugin releases.
     
  16. Offline

    QQCucumber

    It's a bit ridiculous how far behind #556 is now.
     
  17. Offline

    mughi

    builds happen when a developer commits a section of code (saves their work to the server). aside from making sure it compiles and doesn't explode, they don't do much more testing. Most of the time, it is simply a part of a larger project/feature being worked on. The number of builds between recommended builds really doesn't mean that much. some builds may have been the result of fixing a spelling error in one line of code. Others may represent weeks worth of work (hopefully not, that's a bad idea, but anyhow).

    a recommended build happens (i assume) when the developers agree that the current build is reasonably stable and is different enough to warrant being called recommended. Then someone goes to the current build, clicks a button, and it gets listed as a recommended build.

    The point is, you can't judge the progress by the number of builds.

    also, keep in mind. the only thing that you (hopefully) paid for was vanilla minecraft. anything bukkit does is simply because they like doing it.
     
  18. Offline

    QQCucumber

    556 is not behind simply by a numerical amount. There have been a massive amount of bugfixes that my server really needs. Bugfixes so major there are a lot of plugins not even supporting 556 anymore.

    I'm fine with having recommended builds but the time between each RB should not be this long.
     
  19. Offline

    captainawesome7

    Lol its free stop complaining
     
  20. Offline

    tekac

    @captainawesome7 and where does your troll remark fit in with this conversation? If you don't have basic intellect to fit in with this, then please just do yourself a favor and don't speak.
     
  21. Offline

    captainawesome7

    @tekac
    its free stop complaining
     
  22. Offline

    SpaceManiac

    @captainawesome7 That's not really a valid defense.

    @QQCucumber This kind of thing is actually the problem with recommended builds as is. Despite the great idea behind them, most plugin developers feel compelled to ignore the Bukkit dev's call to support RBs. Would you rather have all these bugs fixed and a nasty one nobody's found yet introduced? The Bukkit devs are working hard to keep things up to date.

    Basically, the Bukkit dev team needs to try to keep recommended builds current, and plugin devs need to be prepared to release their plugins for future RBs (if anything needs to be changed) rather than forcing their users to upgrade past the latest RB.
     
  23. Offline

    Cogito

    Having a 'release schedule' is a very important thing. It gives support to server administrators in the form of stability, support to plugin devs in the form of stable targets to build against, and support to bukkit devs who no longer have to worry as much about breaking things.
    In some ways it actually speeds development, because there is not as much need to run different design paradigms concurrently.

    We do need to improve the release schedule, and hopefully before too long there will be a full release schedule including hotfixes (which bring important bugfixes as soon as they are discovered), but for now please try and be patient; RBs are a good compromise. Yes, since less people are using the latest build we might not find out about introduced bugs as quickly, however there is almost certainly enough testing being done to ensure that when RBs come they are (relatively) bug-free.

    In regards to plugins: authors have never had to upgrade to any particular build. They were often told when their plugins broke with new builds by their user base, and similarly to bukkit this will happen less quickly now due to the smaller amount of people using the latest build. This is extremely acceptable. If a plugin becomes inactive, which typically is not being compatible with the last few RBs, it will (should) be marked as such and you can look for a plugin which is being actively developed to replace it.
    Assuming that you are entitled to updates, unless that was stipulated in some contract you have with the author, is a stance not likely to make progress go any faster.

    We all appreciate testers immensely, you help us make better code. Developing good relationships with testers allows developers to be more efficient, and if testers develop good relations with the developers their concerns tend to be heard more readily. Enough from me, I have work to do!
     
  24. Offline

    Kane

    I understand everyone has extremely valid points on both sides but my personal thought is Bukkit is still in heavy development and is going to be for a long time... I really think RB has killed heavy testing on higher builds now. I did not mind the rougher times finding a plugin hat works but then again I have more times on my hands..

    I feel like I'm not doing my part anymore hehe.
     
  25. Offline

    Xgkkp

    This is utter rubbish. Just because you have a recommended build, doesn't stop you developing for the latest repository version. In the most basic scenario, you could keep two folders. In what most developers probably do, you just keep a separate branch of your source repository for the recommended version/any ported bugfixes. Then you just keep development on your main branch, and split a branch/tag every time there is a recommended release.
    This is a special case as there has been lots of changes going in that break a lot of plugins. I'm sure we'll get a new release before long. I'm sure that most the plugin authors are writing/testing against the latest revision; in fact I have seen several posts to that effect.

    Bukkit is in development, yes, but it also has a lot of users who rely on the behaviour and on a relatively easy set of dependencies. If there weren't recommended builds, it would be much harder to get everything to work together (half your plugins might be broken, the other half working), and the noise from users who don't understand why things are broken if they constantly use HEAD would be even louder.
     
  26. Offline

    AnrDaemon

    Just because you made a choice to not use bleeding-edge builds does not means they are nonexistent.
    What is your real problem, again?
     
  27. Offline

    feverdream

    This entire situation was why I originally released my plugins for only the most recent bukkit builds. It was an attempt to do the following:

    A. Make sure users always used the latest and greatest.
    B. Increase the tester base for the newest builds so issues would be found fast and fixed faster.
    C. Put friendly pressure on the bukkit team to worry more about releasing incrementally better and better versions while making sure they got real world feature and design feedback.

    In software development we call this "Continuous Integration" and at this pre-release stage its possible because you don't treat the users as customers, you treat them like really jr-level QA people... because that is largely what they are. The rest of this system was slowly being put in place, even had a nice daily build set up - kudos - but I see the RB system as letting the users have more control than they should. Its not supposed to be easy for them yet, that happens later after a official release.

    See, there WAS a method to what people called my madness.. so yeah, not insane just a genius. #winning.
     
  28. Offline

    tekac

    @feverdream
    Epic +1
     
  29. Offline

    mrgreaper

    recommanded builds are good, but they are so far between look at the rb now 557 and there up to build 592 then look at the list of fixes, as i have said in another thread as a server admin i will want to use some of those fixes but only 2 plugins work on builds higher then the rb so were stuck
     
  30. Offline

    RustyDagger

    This And it Stinks Rb's Need to stay and there should not be 30+ Builds between releases Mainly when 1.4 is just around the corner Another Nice stable stepping stone before 1.4 is needed And i think a fair amount of people in this topic from reading it just now would agree with me. Community is saying what we would like and the head guys seem to be off in pixi land
     
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