Opinion(s) on online-mode=false

Discussion in 'Bukkit Discussion' started by Sayshal, Feb 22, 2012.

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  1. Offline

    Sayshal

    Hello everyone my name is Sayshal, and today I'd like to bring up an issue I've seen increasing on the Bukkit forums. Before I take this any further I'd like to make one thing clear:
    These are my opinions on the issue, not something to written or taken as a 'rule'. Also I am not asking any Bukkit Staff to make this part of the Terms and Rules, just to read this and give some thought/insight..

    Now onto the topic at hand, offline servers.

    The first point I'd like to make is I have used an offline server for one reason and one reason only: testing plugins/building when my internet is down. I strongly believe the usage of online-mode=false is abused in a manner that is outright illegal. Cracked servers/accounts are used to connect to these servers, which illegal. (I'd also like to point out this: Click Me!) I'm sure a lot of you would agree when I say that a decent amount of the "Help me my friends and I can't connect!" is because they have a cracked client (have not paid for it at minecraft.net) and is usually "solved" with turning online-mode=false, and getting a plugin like AuthMe or xAuth. (I'll talk about my personal opinions on those two plugins later on)

    The issue is not that you cannot pay for the game, I understand that, but the Bukkit project specifically does not support 'cracked' clients (Click here) because it is in violation of not only the law, but Mojang's terms of service (seen here: http://www.minecraft.net/terms).
    Quote from that Terms Of Service:
    My second point is the amount of time we (the people who help @ Bukkit Help section) spend on explaining to people how wrong it is to download an illegal copy of MineCraft, as demonstrated here: http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/plz-help-uhhh-i-cant-get-into-my-own-server.61349

    Downloading/Installing/Playing on an illegal (cracked) account/client is piracy, and is illegal (Refer to http://www.minecraft.net/terms) every where.

    My main point here is how much time others and myself spend in the Bukkit Help section helping everybody who is using online-mode=false and wants to know why their friend can login as their username and grief. Well one, don't use offline mode, and two, get rid of that friend on your server.

    As I mentioned briefly above, I have a strong dislike for plugins who allow people to use offline mode safely, by setting up an in-game command to verify the authenticity of the player. Is that not exactly what the minecraft authentication servers are built for?
    xAuth Quote:
    (Click here to read more)
    While AuthMe is not openly stating this is used for offline mode, most of the Bukkit Help posts related to AuthMe are directly about offline mode being used. (AuthMe can be found here)

    Plugins that are made/greatly used for offline mode should not be allowed on this forum or dev.bukkit.org for the main, clear reason. It is illegal.


    I understand not all people use offline mode for cracked clients, but for legitimate reasons like
    • plugin development/testing
    • lan-parties
    • Internet is out
    If you think I should add any legitimate reasons to this I'd love to hear them.

    In my closing, I'd like to thank the people who've read this, and ask for any opinion from anyone who is willing to share either their support, or reasons why this post is complete garbage.

    Posts saying any of the following will be completely ignored:
    "Well it's not like I'll get caught."
    "You probably pirate music/movies." (Untrue and unrelated)
    "There's nothing bukkit will/can do, get over it." (I understand Bukkit will probably not take any more action against cracked clients, I am simply sharing my opinion)
     
    johnnywoof and turt2live like this.
  2. Offline

    MDCreator

    This matter is a bit confusing given a couple things.
    Notch is a member of the Pirate Party, promoting piracy in a couple ways. And it, indeed has helped him, maybe just a tiny bit. I'm in no way saying that piracy is a good or bad thing. I'm just saying it just is.

    And because it is, there are some things, some reprocussions of it existing. These are some things to keep in mind.
    - It causes companies to assume by default that players are pirating their game and that it is bad.
    - We've seen some companies use that to their advantage by blaming piracy for their steeply declining profits.
    - In no way do I agree or disagree. There's some evidence against and for it. I won't take a stance on this.
    - Piracy could possibly help indie developers. Again, there's some evidence against and for it.

    I think it's that Notch doesn't think piracy much of a problem(he's filthy rich anyway), but his company does. It's understandable that companies want to make money off of their work.

    However, the statement that plugins enabling security for something that may promote piracy gets stuck in my mind a bit. How is it illegal for something to indirectly maybe support something illegal?

    I'm not for these plugins, either. The fuzzy thing is that it's morally illegal to create something promoting piracy. That I agree with. I don't think it's a good or bad thing, just that its illegal. However, you can't make assumptions about plugins whose intentions were for securer servers in offline mode. It is wrong to state that those plugins have the direct intention to promote piracy. They might, but some of them don't.

    So, in summary, you can't determine a plugin's intentions by what it is used for. That's the complicated thing about it. What if the plugin has a use other than piracy?

    I think that's my essay for today. For any ensuing wars, I'll take a neutral stance, except for that claim.

    Point is, butter sometimes tastes really salty.
     
  3. Offline

    Kaikz

    It's not illegal. It's built into the server software itself.

    There's no such thing as "cracked servers". offline-mode is built into the damn game. The closest you can get to a "cracked server", would be recoding the entire authentication system (which has been done and isn't hard at all), which is no more than a mod. Notch supports mods. Nothing wrong here.

    Again, offline-mode is built into the server software. By this logic, mods are illegal.

    No it isn't. Once again, it's built into the server, and the client. If your account isn't premium, you can play offline and your username is changed to literally, "Player". You can still go on offline-mode servers, but yes, not multiple people running the game like this due to conflicting usernames. But you still can get onto said server.
    Cracked accounts are not piracy, just illegal (I'm not too sure about this, someone correct me). But they're a whole other issue unrelated to offline-mode servers.
    "cracked clients" are no more than a set of mods. I could create a "cracked client" right now and release it on MinecraftForums, here or BukkitDev. Again, Notch supports mods.

    If it means I can play with my friends, then no, I will continue to run my server in offline-mode.

    Oh look, once again, it's not illegal.

    Like I've stated before, I've run a server where a majority of players are of young ages (12-14), with very strict parents who won't let them buy the game, but they could pay for an amazing dedicated server for it. Am I going to tell them to find another server? No, I'm not. They have no way of paying for the game.

    Notch and Mojang even tell people to pirate their game if they have no way of paying for it. See here and here.

    I seriously do not understand why Bukkit won't support offline-mode. It's vanilla functionality. It's not like it makes it harder to develop Bukkit or anything, it just shows how stupid some "server owners" can be about their server.
     
  4. Offline

    Sleaker

    Kaikz - I think the decision to not support offline servers comes from a belief that they are much less secure and more prone to user problems. So no one wants to give them support. On top of this, every time I've asked someone why they are in offline mode the only reason they are ends up being 'Because my friends haven't bought the game.' Generally I don't give support for these kinds of users, so I guess I tend to be on the sorry I wont help you side of things.
     
    Sayshal likes this.
  5. Offline

    Kaikz

    I understand this, but there's no need to absolutely shun them out of the forum for it, just let people help who want to help and/or leave it alone.

    Fair enough. Personally, I don't care if your server is "cracked" to the point there's nothing to stand on, I will do what I can do fix whatever is wrong.
     
  6. Offline

    Sleaker

    Kaikz - I do it more to say, well.. if you wont get your users to support mojang why should I also help support you? :-/ - I guess that's my thought process on it.
     
    Sayshal likes this.
  7. Offline

    Kaikz

    I'm not Mojang, I'm writing my own plugins, I will provide support for my code whenever.
     
  8. Offline

    darkwarriors

    coding a plugin its illegal? btw u can code whatever u want, players and admin are free to use it as they want, if they will break some rules its a his problem not a plugin related problem.. what a foolish discussion.. AuthMe xAuth AuthDB dindt force player to use online-mode = false so where is the problem? if someone want use it on offlinemode true well, if somelese not.. then he will asnwer at his country law..

    so you have to remove from bukkit all the plugins that works under online_mode= false. thats will be a coerent action.
     
  9. Offline

    EvilSeph

    It's simple: we aren't Mojang, we can't make the decision to openly support online-mode=false or pirated Minecraft even if we wanted to, and we don't.

    If you want to get support with helping people play a game they shouldn't be able to play without paying (you can't get the game without a premium account unless you pirate it), you're not going to get help here. Mojang themselves make it clear that running your server in offline mode is a bad idea and leaves your server vulnerable. By choosing to run your server in offline mode, you're accepting these risks and we're not going to help you overcome them.
     
  10. Offline

    darkwarriors

    completly agree with EvilSeph!
     
    Sayshal likes this.
  11. Offline

    Kaikz

    Not true. As I said (and you of all people should know), if you login with a non-premium account and choose the "offline mode" option in the launcher, your username is set to "Player", and you can go on offline-mode servers. All done via minecraft.net, no piracy at all.
     
  12. Offline

    EvilSeph

    You can't download the game through the launcher without having a premium account, as far as I know. Offline mode or not, you already need the game downloaded. If you have it downloaded while having never paid for the game, you pirated it.
     
    Sayshal likes this.
  13. Offline

    Sayshal

    I totally agree with this, thanks for your input.
     
  14. Offline

    yttriuszzerbus

    I suggested a policy of not giving offline-mode related help without a good reason, which met with mixed responses and a debate similar to this. Personally, I ignore help threads from people who use offline mode simply to avoid paying, but it's a matter of opinion.
     
  15. Offline

    rustymetal

    I have been running a 150 player dedi for good part of 4 months without a single problem related offline mode.
    I obviously have a auth plugin - AuthDB and Dynamic White List. Users are required to register on our forums/site before the server will let them play.

    If you wanna know a good reason for these mods with online mode, tie users into forum software / other databases / ranks/permissions via forums scripts, etc. The list goes on what you could use these plugins for but this thread's OP is clearly short-sighted.

    Biggest problem is player confusion, not understanding the need to sign up / whats this password for.

    In reality, my system is better. I get zero minecraft grief and mostly just usual DDoS.

    What's really so great about Mojang's auth system? You can find 500 minecraft accounts for 10 cents each if you search google. Load them in whatever bot app you have and go greif every 'legit' server without problem.
     
  16. Offline

    Lolmewn

    online-mode = false
    Bad idea.
    Don't do it.
    Buy Minecraft.
    Support Devs.

    Nuf said.
     
    Kierrow likes this.
  17. Offline

    dark_hunter

    You need to download the game for the first time in order to actually use offline mode, and you can't download the files without a paid account, you can only grab then with cracked.
     
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