More information on the Minecraft 1.7.2 update

Discussion in 'Bukkit News' started by EvilSeph, Nov 15, 2013.

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    EvilSeph Retired Staff

    Things are progressing nicely towards our first development build of CraftBukkit for Minecraft 1.7.2. Although this update did not provide or add as much feature-wise as previous Minecraft updates have, this is probably one of the more complicated and larger updates we've had to work with from a mod development standpoint. With "almost all of [the code in Minecraft] having been changed - be it little or big" (according to Mojang), there has been significant shifting around of code and logic - to the estimated tune of ~220k lines changed - within Minecraft, resulting in our slowest and most involved update yet.

    Managing expectations - information about our initial CraftBukkit 1.7.2 builds
    Five days ago (on November 10th) I sent out a tweet trying to describe what our initial findings were regarding the impact this Minecraft update has on the project but it's frustratingly very difficult to communicate everything I want or need to in 140 characters. Nonetheless, sending out tweets is still our best form of communication that doesn't push other important topics out of view (like the potential structure loss PSA).

    The tweet was meant to explain that while we will definitely have development builds, our analysis and evaluation of the update (through reading the code and following Minecraft feedback/bug reports from the community) has revealed that there are issues in Minecraft that may prevent us from getting anything stable or reliable out. This was purely meant to assist us with managing expectations as to the quality, stability and reliability of any builds we're able to give out.

    As for the 'issues we cannot fix' aspect of the tweet, this is due to the nature and policies of the Bukkit project: it is not so much that we are unable to fix the issues ourselves (though this can sometimes be the case), but rather that the issues present are not the project's responsibility to fix and, instead, would be better addressed by Mojang. While we do sometimes make exceptions if we have a really good reason to do so (like to fix a security issue), we try and avoid altering the way Minecraft itself behaves and functions. This is both a conscious decision as a project and a necessity, as too many changes to Minecraft's inner workings can mean significant increases in the complexity and amount of work required for the update process.

    It's not so much that we choose not to fix these issues, but rather that we need to be fully conscious and aware of the impact doing so could have on the update process and our day-to-day maintaining of the project. If the fix for an issue touches too many internals within Minecraft, for example, it usually makes the update process significantly more complex, resulting in (what could be an avoidable) increase in the amount of time it takes us to update. As much as we'd like to fix every issue we come across, doing so would mean updating to new Minecraft versions will take even longer than they currently do.

    This is why we have the minimal diffs policy (a policy which eliminates unnecessary changes to the Minecraft code), it results in a speedier and less buggy update for everyone. Although it undoubtedly limits the developers in our project, I think you'll agree that it's a worthy sacrifice and limit to impose upon ourselves in order to ensure that the downtime of your server between updates is as minimal as we can possibly achieve.

    If we were not personally responsible for updating the core of our project, we'd have much more freedom to experiment. As it is, however, the Bukkit project handles updating, development and the maintaining of both a plugin API (Bukkit) and a Minecraft server mod (CraftBukkit) in order to produce the server you all know and love.

    To be clear:
    • There WILL be development builds; we're still working towards getting our first one out.
    • Due to significant changes in how Minecraft works, it will take us a while to get our Bukkit API updated. Hence, it is highly unlikely that all the plugins you are using will work on our initial development builds.
    • There will MOST LIKELY be promoted builds, but they'll be lower quality than you could usually expect from us due to issues we can't address.
    What does updating CraftBukkit involve?
    To give you an idea as to why this update is taking longer than usual, I need to briefly touch on what our update process involves. Every time a Minecraft update is released, we have to go through a repetitive, time consuming and dry multi-step process.

    A simple breakdown of the process is as follows: decompile the server -> learn the new names (they change with every update) -> figure out how they apply to Bukkit's naming system -> learn what changed/what's new in the update -> update the changes we make to the server to support Bukkit -> get the code to compile -> fix issues that come up.

    Since we're working with a code base that is unfamiliar to us, we can sometimes find ourselves having to jump back to a previous step. For example: we may come across a piece of code that we're not familiar with and once we're able to figure out what it does, we realise that we've named something incorrectly which we then have to go back and fix. It is this fluid and unpredictable aspect of the update process that makes it difficult to come up with a communicable ETA or any progress/status updates.

    Though this process may seem inefficient or ineffective, this is the same process that we've used and improved upon to get all of our updates out (even our fastest ones) over the 3 years the project has existed. Bear in mind, the overview provided here barely touches the surface of our update process and is intended to give you a remote idea as to what we have to deal with for every update. This brief and simplified breakdown of our 'steps' does little to explain the varying level of difficulty or complexity of each step, for example.

    How can I help?
    The best way to help us out is to get involved.

    If you're a server admin: once we have our first development build out, we'd appreciate any testing you could perform and any issues you can report. Please bear in mind that development builds are unsupported and should not be run on production servers.

    If you're a plugin developer: once we have our first development build out with proper API support, we'd appreciate if you could test the build out and report any missing or broken API to our bug tracker.

    If you're looking to help us out with the update, you'll have to work towards that goal by getting involved in other aspects of the project first. Due to the sensitive and extremely team oriented nature of the update process, we require that you build a relationship and demonstrate your commitment to the project before getting involved with updating will benefit the process. As the update process is incredibly repetitive and mundane, intense commitment is a key requirement for the team.

    We know this update is taking longer than usual but I assure you we are working our hardest to get it done. Thanks for your patience and continued support, it makes a huge difference and really helps us push onward!
     
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    MinecraftrGuy

    Phaze_One likes this.
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    EvilSeph Retired Staff

    As I tweeted a few minutes ago (https://twitter.com/EvilSeph/status/405472738879340544):
    To be clear: from the start we've said that we don't give ETAs because we can't give/aren't able to determine them. However, If I have enough information, then I'll happily try and communicate something if at all possible.

    The first few development builds should be treated as 'it compiles' quality only and may not even run, nor will we be able to provide even remote assurance that our API will function as expected.
     
    sk8er92749, Black Hole, jqsh and 5 others like this.
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    spluton

    good to ear that you are at testing something and that we are getting closer to something

    keep going
     
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    broro08

    Great news EvilSeph ! Keep up the great work!
     
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    fisherp


    Dude, seriously Good Work. Thank you very much for keeping the community "in the loop". Thanks also for spelling it out clearly that the first fruits can be a bit on the un-ripe side. My hat is tipped off for you, there's only a few projects I've seen where the dev's have given as much feedback as you have.

    On another note I was saddened by your departure from the Mojang team, but I'm certain you have reasons for it.
     
    5h0ckw4ve and JaguarJo like this.
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    PunJedi


    Thank you, quick question? When you release a build like this, does it help or hinder?
    I ask because I can imagine your team gets a flood of bug reports / feature listings. I notice that once you release a dev build you have amazing turn around times on the following builds. Just didn't know if this really ground ya down or in some fashion assists what your team does, in the long run.
     
  8. Both really, Bugs get found and reported, but at the same time everyone floods the team with the same reports and all bug reports must be read.
     
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    Mikesteel

    How would we sign up for the dev builds, if we're an admin. I would like to test it out. I have a few friends that could test it. I, myself would play on it and test it as well. I would like to use bukkit's server for 1.7.2. I don't like the normal Minecraft Server, but I'll deal with it, if I have to.
     
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    Gravity Retired Staff

    Once the source code is up for the update, the community can do a lot more in the way of bug fixing and API implementation. The dynamic of working on the update vs. working on these PR-type changes is different (for the core team), but if nothing else it's a plus to have everyone helping out.
     
    Eathuis likes this.
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    PunJedi


    Kind of what I was hoping. I've been one of those to chime or in or lend assistance once in a while, but have a tendency to wonder how much the 'outside' community assists vs. the whole 'shaddup and let us do our thing' mentality works out. Thank you
     
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    Bobcat00

    So that means it hasn't been tested at all?
     
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    mcwurth

    great news.
     
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    TnT Retired Staff

    No need to sign up. The build, when available, will be located in its usual location - http://dl.bukkit.org
     
    lilacorn likes this.
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    kidmilo10

    1.7.3 is coming out
     
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    JMiahMan

    Let it come! Doesn't look to be much more then bug fixes..
     
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    MinecraftrGuy

    1.7.3 is just bug fixes and the addition of Twitch streaming. It is a build that will still be compatible with 1.7.2(Similar to 1.4.6 and 1.4.7 last year, where the protocol was the same)

    EvilSeph - https://twitter.com/EvilSeph/status/40544566075473100
     
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    lme999

    All 1.7.3 is, is client-side bug-fixes and the addition of Twitch streaming, as MinecraftrGuy said in the post above. I'm pretty sure EvilSeph tweeted about this here https://twitter.com/CraftBukkit, stating that it shouldn't affect the process of them updating Bukkit.
     
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    jqsh

    I cannot even begin to imagine the complexity and sheer amount of code you guys have to get through. A big thank you to EvilSeph and the Bukkit Team.

    May you stay positive and sane during this incredibly difficult time.
     
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    kazblox

    Our server has been desperate sheer for a 1.7.2 build - days! Hopes for an completely unsuccessful build this week, guys and gals. I dont care if it's buggy or not. :)
     
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    gerardvanschip


    That's great stuff. I'm more than happy to test this on my server as we only have 200 users who are very flexible. Right now we put our 1.6.4 on ice as we wanted to play with 1.7.2.

    Now, what is the best way for submitting bugs we might find? I will first do a test with a clean map, do stuff, load plugins and configs, see how that holds up, then load a copy of our regular well build out map, see how that goes.

    Thanks for the hard work.
     
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    turt2live Retired Staff

    leaky.bukkit.org for bugs
     
    gerardvanschip likes this.
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    bobthefish

    Minecraft 1.7.2: "the update that killed the world"


    haha great job guys, look forward to the new update
     
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    Icecoldpanda

    Hey.

    I know you guys are hard at work. And I love you guys for it!
    Buuuut, I am wondering if there is any new update on the process to 1.7.2
     
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    timtower Moderator Moderator

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    Icecoldpanda

    timtower Thanks :) I forgot about twitter, I don't use it at all xD

    gerardvanschip a little heads up. If you go from 1.6.4 to 1.7.2 (atleast in vanilla) you get messed up lines between bio areas. Soooo, it may not be so much fun to go over to 1.7.2 =/

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 5, 2016
    timtower likes this.
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    mcwurth


    must be something with your plugins or something because i had this not.
     
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    geNAZt

    Its normal that you get biome differences between 1.6.4 and 1.7.2 if you use the same World. That what heppens if Mojnag changes the WorldGenerator. Thats why the 1.7.2 is called "The Update that changed the World" because they put all changes into 1.7.2 to only break the Worlds once :D
     
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    iSayCr4pAlot

    Hoping this could come out by tomorrow. I tried to promise my players that I could add a survival server to my server hub, 12/1.
    ------------
    NOTE: EVERYONE.
    ------------
    If you are planning to do a complete map reset for your server, and you want the 1.7.2 features on the map, or your just a new server owner, then you can do it before bukkit 1.7.2 comes out. Download the vanilla minecraft server mod, available at minecraft.net, and then just launch your server, and work on spawn or something. When bukkit 1.7.2 comes out, just copy the map from vanilla minecraft, and paste it to the bukkit 1.7.2 jar directory. Thus, when bukkit 1.7.2 comes out, you'll already have a spawn made. The only thing you'll have to do, is add the plugins.
    (If you want plugins too, for your 1.7.2 server, use a 1.6.4 bukkit, and start generating the plugin folders. Edit the YML files, then when bukkit 1.7.2 is out, copy and paste the plugin files. However, not all plugins from 1.6.4 are guaranteed to work with bukkit 1.7.2.)
    -
    Any admins, feel free to remove this post, but im just informing everybody so yea :d. Im almost ready for 1.7.2 bukkit, if plugins dont break.
     
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    stormworm25

    I would love to test this out! If you need any testing, let me know! I would be willing to test for days!
     
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    owenftw

    Keep up the work bukkit, you're doing great :)
     
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