Latest Build - Nothing Works.. Shoot Me In The Head Plx

Got the most recent snapshot of craftbukkit.

Very basic and simple installation. Using default permissions and not the plugin.

Only have WorldEdit and WorldGuard installed.

I type /ascend it just spits back /ascend to me

I type /god it says /god [other player]

Nothing works right at all... its obviously picking up some type of hidden character or something... and well.. thats about as much as I can elaborate.. any chance someone can point me to an older snapshot to put on my server, i had gotten into the habit of just overwriting them.. and now i'm screwed.. server down with 30-40 regular players at any time...

 

If you bothered to read about current events you'd know that 168 broke a lot of plugins because of a change in how commands work. Either use an older build of craftbukkit with a version of the plugin that works with it, or wait for the plugin to be updated to fix it. Make sure your plugins work on the craftbukkit build you're downloading before you download it.

 

Excuse me for not being perfect.. I read the forums, I use the search function.. I've spent the better part of the last 8 hours on this site trying to figure out why nothing was working for me.... If you could point me in the direction of this oh-so obvious information, it would be appreciated. Hate you people that just go "If you botherered to get a brain because your not as smart as me......." sheesh, would it be so hard to just say, ya it broke stuff, and answer my question (about pointing me in the direction of where i can actually GET an older build of craftbukkit... no but you ppl all have to be asses about everything.

p.s. forget about answering where to get the older builds.. someone that's actually nice PM'd me the link and politely explained how it actually works... for once..... and I'm not the only person who has trouble navigating their way around this site.

 

Where can I get #167?

 

Sorry but if you read the forms and/or searched don't tell me you did this for 8 hours and found nothing. Either you are lying or are completely oblivious to how to read and search forums.

Yes some of the threads are not easily searchable, but when you state you were solving it for 8 hours and reading the forums...

Edit: oh and about your p.s. section; If you want to runa server you HAVE TO know something about how searching and solving problems work. So do not act so hurt when we expect that from you. If a man comes to a doctors forum and asks how to solve a medical problem they will NOT teach him the basics of anatomy or whatever!

Josch: here are all releases, just choose and click the Artifacts tab.

 

They should make bukkit harder to use to weed out the noobs

 

The only place I've anything about the recent builds not working with plugins is the Bamboo site. If you don't make it a point to look at the comments there you'll probably miss it, and I don't see messages about this anywhere else that's obvious.

On the main page for the project there's a weeks-old post, so that isn't any help. Any of the sub-forums I've looked in don't have any obviously titled threads about it that I can tell. I'll agree that if you spent a large amount of time searching and didn't find anything then you've got some weird personal issue, but if this major change was more obvious, at least a thread stickied at the top of the plugin forum, this thread might not have had to have been made.

If I didn't read carefully, and I normally don't, I would have had the same problem. Being "noob" friendly doesn't invite them, it keeps them from bothering you.

 

The original response WAS noob-friendly, he said what is wrong and what to do about it. He also stated what to do to prevent such problem from happening. So I don't really get what the fuss is about

 

I don't know what has happened to this community to make it so bitter towards its users. Things that appear obvious to you may not be for other people who don't spend as much time working with bukkit as you do. The only way I ever find out any of this information you seem to assume everyone should be automatically aware of, is by coming across it by chance in plugin threads when trying to work out why something else randomly stopped working. If you don't want to have to explain the basics to people over and over then the information should be made easily available for everyone to find.

 

8 hours is barely any time at all. As fucking annoying as I think it is to see people commenting right on the build number, it is still a source of information. I wish the bukkit devs would have a subforum, with a subforum of that for each build number where people could discuss bugs and problems with Bukkit instead of commenting on the bamboo site. I'm sure they'd do that if they wanted to though.

The biggest problem I have, and I think Plague would agree, is that people don't read nearly enough, or think their problems are special (aka, don't read through the forums, and don't fill out the necessary information.)

Had that information been filled out, the first post would have been: "Oh, that build you're using? It fucks up plugin commands." Simple and easy.
--- merged: Jan 30, 2011 5:53 PM ---
@pmx
"Things that appear obvious to you may not be for other people who don't spend as much time working with bukkit as you do. "

That's the problem. This isn't software you can just pick up and expect it to work great the first time. It's bleeding edge software, and if you aren't willing to put in that time, or at least give us as much information as we need, why should we help? I get very annoyed when people do not spend very much time at all, but expect us to sit there and help them every step of the way. If we're bitter, its because we see the same damn posts 100 times, all with the same damn problem.

Help us help you. If you show your initiative to learn, we will help. Its as simple as that.

Hell, I've gone through the trouble of actually setting up a guys server over teamviewer because he was struggling so much. I helped because he was willing to put in all the time necessary to learn. He has taken that knowledge and is now helping the community with it. Those are the people we like.

 

I'm just generally tired of and upset with the short dick syndrome of many of the developers and programmers in this community who feel the urge to step on someone every chance they get because they got too many wedgies in elementary school.

All I did in my OP was ask a long winded question with a little ranting on the side about my bad day. "any chance someone can point me to an older snapshot to put on my server"

That particular response was actually not bad, it's just I've been met with this same arrogance and rudeness toward people with questions across the board.... and my actual question ultimately didn't get answered and 8e8 would have saved time and been better off if he just simply did not respond. A quick link to http://bamboo.lukegb.com/browse/BUKKIT-CRAFTBUKKIT/ with a little explanation of the artifacts section would have been the thing to put.. You have to admit, for someone who hasn't been heavily involved in bukkit and is fairly new to the forums.. that this is not easy to find. I just started to use bukkit within the last week, I've been a forum member since bukkit started but I spend little more than my free day on saturdays working on things as I have a life the other 6.

- I'm sorry for stealing your lunch money and banging your mother.

r u f'n serious? If that's the prevailing attitude you should really take a look at who your core audience will be when bukkit releases.

 

Considering that everything we give to the community is done for free - and that I've gotten about 10 people posting EXACTLY the same question, because they refuse to read the title of the thread, or the last page of the thread, I'd say us developers are acting pretty nice.

I don't mind answering a question once or twice, but when the answer to your query is in the TITLE of most threads, and in the last few pages of discussion... well...

I just wish there was a way to mute a user from posting for like 6 hours, just to get them to not ask already answered questions...

 

You're too close to your own work. you've seen the exact same question posted 10 times over the span of a 46 page forum thread... whereas someone who is not familiar with the project is looking for an answer that may only appear on pages 8 and 32 and is shrouded in enough trolling to make them puke. For once second pretend you've installed bukkit for the first time.. and you've looked around these forums for general information for a couple hours. Where do you find the GD info that bukkit nerfed basic server commads from /command to /#command? Forgive me for trying to add some positivity here.

You know what???? I run a Minecraft server.. for free..... with tons of players on it. On my forums, on my x-fire, on my IRC, in my e-mail inbox... i get hundreds of the same questions that have already been answered too. Can we have /commands? How can I be an admin? I Can Has Diamond Pick? Yes I tire of it... but I smile, and I politely say... "You can apply for admin on the forum... and you can have /commands when Bukkit starts working". Instead of.. "if you had half a brain you'd already know the answer you moron".

I'm sorry this thread turned into this... but as pmx mentioned above and i've seen across the whole forum... is a general bitterness toward your users. And you say you do this for free... but users who have a good experience from you and your product are likely to feel better towards clicking that little 'donate' button on your site if you got one.

 

Tremor, I'm with you on this one. In fact looking back it doesn't look like you even edited your OP and yet it is much better presented than my post would have been had I made one. And yes, I tried the latest build too and yes it broke everything. Even crashed and my world got corrupted - and Yes - that's the risk we accept as Server Admins when we try the latest build, but we're also helping test this stuff. My players might have to go back to last night's backup but they understand about testing too. In fact, reading your OP was the first hint I got that the "latest" build was horribly bugged or changed radically so as to break everything and crash. And yes, thats part of development too, but from where I am, yours was a useful post which as far as the website showed was the first warning that something big had changed in latest build. Nothing to announce it or lead me to see it before that. In fact I stumbled upon it during a bemused search for a simple "corrupt world folder" program that should be an obvious thing to write yet best I can find is a python script, but anyway..

So here I am, learning (from YOU not anyone else) about the issues in this latest build, and I'm seeing three people with nice purple names because they develop plugins - not Bukkit, but plugins - apparently ganging up on you to tell you how you shouldnt be posting unless you've spent 8 hours+ reading first. LOL!... wait.. they're serious? As a Server Admin (bigger than mine; let me look at your server sometime) I'm sure you were getting spammed for a fix within 5 minutes of the problem appearing. Telling players "give me 8 hours to read some random stuff and I'll get back to you - and BTW thats 8 working hours, skipping times I'm sleeping/at work/school/eating" - they'd go mental!

The actual Bukkit Devs have been put in a difficult high pressure situation by Notch's update and the demise of HMod - and they're handling it brilliantly! I have nothing but praise for Dinnerbone and the other main devs, we'd be completely stuck without them. Notch should totally put them on a good salary, in fact.
It's where the information filters down where its not so good. The people here developing plugins seem to be trying to vent their own frustrations, despite not being the ones who are actually developing Bukkit itself. I imagine its pretty competitive and everyone wants to be in the same league as Dinnerbone but of course, few can. I'm a little surprised at how hard it is to get useful help from people who understand this stuff, and I have to suspect more than a little elitism, especially when the subject of so much wrath is asking for a link to an older version where there are only 2 types of people in the world; those who have the link saved and those who don't. Providing the link is surely easier than flaming, but of course doesn't let people be all high and mighty about it.

Kudos on how you handled their responses, too, Tremor. Keep working on providing the best game experience for your players, don't let people stop you asking questions - much better a question from you than 50 from your 50 regular players, surely?

Take Care,
Corum.

 

You should always test new versions on a development server before going live on your production server to avoid things like this. Especially with unstable software such as Craftbukkit and Bukkit.

 

Thanks maxx that's a good suggestion... are there any server admins that would like to work on a shared development environment? My linux vps is maxed out with the production server as it is... and my home PC barely runs the client. Maybe some of the other helpful server operators can put together their own forum area where we can share and discuss our issues, without being such a nuisance to plugin developers.

 

The stickies and the first 10 topics on every forum will have the information you need. So forgive us if we don't sound so cheery about answering something when the answer is right under your nose, and has been asked about in numbers. I put it nicely, in case you couldn't tell. If you looked on the last page of the topic of the plugin you were referring to I'm sure you would have seen others were having the same issues. It doesn't even take 30 minutes of investigating to find the information you're looking for if you follow your own clues.

Take my suggestion into mind. If you're not developing plugins, try not to update to the latest craftbukkit. Instead, wait for others to test the waters, and for plugin developers to update plugins. Unless of course you're running a vanilla server.

 

Simply put: If you want to run bleeding edge software, expect to put in a lot of time into it.

"But I'm too busy to spend a lot of time on it!"

I don't care. No one here cares. You've taken on running bleeding edge software without having the time to learn it. A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine. Running bleeding edge software is not for you. Sorry if you don't like that answer, it is the truth. There are competing server mods available you know. Bukkit isn't your only option (imo, its the best one though, if you put in the time to learn it). You must put in this time as things change so rapidly, you must keep up with the changes. THAT is what it is like to be a real admin, of any system you work on. This is true whether it is a simple Bukkit server, or a complicated server farm such as what Google has to offer, and anything in between.

The Bukkit staff, as well as the community, has put now numerous "How-To" posts. There are threads asking for relevant information to help fix those problems, yet there are people who are too lazy to fill it out. I have already had one guy today say "Must i fill out this i need fast help for my community".

So on behalf of us frustrated and bitter community members, I apologize if we get angry, but can we be blamed? Answering the same question 100 times will surely make us bitter when asked, yet again, the 101st time. On top of that, it really distracts us from helping those who can really use the help (such as @Kane, who identified a problem in his CentOS kernel due to being able to eliminate all other possibilities.)

 

That really proves the point here about not having a clue what is going on. Nobody in this thread is a staff people here, we are all just guys who either look here for info or plugin developers (like me).

Oh and @CorumAnime? tl;dr

 

Right - the whole reason I'm here is for donate clicks. Now that I've been completely generalized and typecast into a corner, feel free to continue ranting.

There already have been some plugin developers (I won't single them out, due to my respect for them) who have become so frustrated with the community that they've opted for private releases only.

PS - I have no donate link.

 

I'm also here entirely for the donate links on the countless hours I've spent helping countless people setup a server.

Oh fuck, they don't come automatically when you sign up to the forum? I guess I don't have any either.

That's a damn shame. Please do not be like them. I love your plugins.
--- merged: Feb 1, 2011 12:20 AM ---

I get paid a hefty sum of money to help out on the forums. A hefty sum of money indeed. I thought everyone did?
/sarcasm

 

Really guys? Why are we all jumping on someone new? He's demonstrated that he's willing to help himself - even if he missed the information he was looking for - and I think that's enough.

I'm disgusted by the attitudes some of you have shown towards new users. This community is better than that. We were all new once and probably wouldn't be here if we were greeted and "welcomed" into the community like he just was. This is unacceptable and infractions will fly.

I will never stand for this kind of behaviour. It's just not cool.

-------------------------

To answer some questions:

We have a thread in the Plugin Developers section that details breakages. I'm hesitant to link it as it might attract un-needed traffic to the thread, but you're free to find it - it's stickied in that section.

No, I admit we aren't communicating these things well enough - however, Bukkit is in active, quick development and things change very fast which is why we haven't done it. Nonetheless, I think I'll start a resource on the wiki to detail breakages that I'm sure the community will help me keep up to date.

Ideally, this shouldn't be necessary. I'm aiming to create a middle-ground where both plugin developers and server admins can live together peacefully. If you, or anyone else, has any ideas as to how to achieve this or where we're going wrong, please do not hesitate to post a suggestion in the appropriate forum.

-------------------------

Lastly, I'll say this. As someone who has a significant amount of development experience with the likes of plugin releases, homebrew and what not - I can completely sympathise with plugin developers and the frustration they are facing. Nonetheless, it isn't kosher to vent that frustration off on someone who's just looking for help. If the OP has just posted "help me, everything is broken" I'd be more inclined to agree with the response he got. But he didn't. He posted an intelligent post that should have been approached in a mature, welcoming manner that is true to the kind of community we really are.

Yes, you're not paid for support anyone and no one is. On the same ticket, you're not forced to respond to people either. If you're not having a great day, maybe you should not respond to a thread that will send you over the edge. Instead of venting your frustration at everyone, provide us with suggestions as to how we can better provide resources to make things easier on you guys. Fill is coming and will, hopefully, make managing plugins significantly easier, but we're not at that stage yet.

All of this could have been avoided had people thought to provide suggestions for improving the way we do things. We value feedback and constructive criticism, so please do not hesitate to provide us with any.

We should be here for each other. Server admins supporting developers: providing them with suggestions, feedback etc. Plugin developers supporting server admins by providing interesting and cool ways to make your server awesome. It should be a circle of dependence and a great relationship. We really shouldn't be at each others' throats.

 

Agreed. Just because no one gave you a download link for #167, look here: http://bamboo.lukegb.com/browse/BUKKIT-CRAFTBUKKIT-167

 

Yay! Someone finally answered his question. It can be frustrating when things like this happen. Most of the plugins are probably updated now, but everyone needs to give the devs some time to update, and don't circumnavigate the question. he simply asked for a link. I don't expect all of them to sit on their computers all night updating code. Now maybe if they took like a week, but in any case, I'm glad your problem was resolved by the guy above me.

 

I'm sorry, but WHAT? I gave him the link the FOURTH POST here. So don't accuse me andother people of not helping.

Also, even the OP got a bad response from us, it really did not originate from the question itself! It originated from his rant on the first response he got, which still WAS a completely fulfilling as it DID say what was wrong, so please (and really EvilSeph how can you not see this) we are not aimed against new people! The whole flame began because of

 

The first response he got was inappropriate and warranted his response. Then everyone else jumped on the bandwagon and continued to inappropriately welcome him.

Was completely unnecessary and, according to you and as far as I can see if that wasn't said, would have avoided all of this.

 

No, only the part "If you bothered to read about current events you'd know that " was unnecessary (as finding something in the forum is not that easy), but he still responded pretty accurately that "168 broke a lot of plugins because of a change in how commands work". So he really did give the right answer, that's why I don't really think he did something that wrong to be punished...

 

I lol'ed

 

We will do that. I've also suggested Wikis for all devs who use large plugins. Maybe a wiki with a subsection for plugins, so we have a one stop shop for all *Bukkit/Plugin information needs.

I see this thread as the post that broke the camels back. I try not to get overly frustrated at these things, and I have been around the interwebs long enough to know that this is always the case with forums - no one reads, everyone wants quick answers. Sadly, I got wrapped up in the bitching and complaining, and vented it here. For that, I apologize to anyone who read my post, and took any cues from it on how to treat new people on this site. I don't believe I said anything untrue, or malicious to any one person in particular, but it could have been left unsaid.

 

He got a warning - that is it. It doesn't differentiate that when displaying it on the forums, though. The whole tone of the reply was off.