Is Bukkit progressively getting worse?

Discussion in 'Bukkit Help' started by XeonProductions, Feb 14, 2011.

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  1. Offline

    XeonProductions

    We've been using an old build and the newer builds tend to run like a nightmare. After running build 325 for an hour, the thing decided to terminate its own life without giving any error in the console log. To compound the problem the plugin developers are not making plugins for the older builds, which leaves us in the past in terms of plugins. I understand Bukkit is still a pre-release alpha, but shouldn't it be getting more stable as new builds are released?
     
  2. Offline

    xZise

    I have no problems with newer builds. Maybe the plugins are simply outdated? At the moment I'm using 323 and it is running pretty stable.

    Fabian
     
  3. Offline

    XeonProductions

    I made sure to get all the latest plugins before moving to the newer build. Everything appeared to check out in the server and console log too. Just had some major instability and lag now.
     
  4. Offline

    trivials

    At first what plugins do you use.

    It exist plugins they make problems!
     
  5. Offline

    XeonProductions

    Cleaner, Essentials*, HeroChat, LightVote, LWC, MagicCarpet, MinecartMania*, Permissions, rBorder, ServerEvents, Vanish, WorldGuard, WorldEdit, and WormholeXtreme. All the latest versions downloaded from the plugin release forum yesterday.

    Command Line arguments if that helps:
    Code:
    java -XX:+UseLargePages -Xms2048m -Xmx2048m -XX:+UseParallelGC -XX:ParallelGCThreads=2 -Djava.net.preferIPv4Stack=true -server -jar CraftBukkit.jar nogui
     
  6. Offline

    Plague

    For me it gets better with more features, but I write my own plugins, so maybe that's it :)
     
  7. Offline

    Pezmantbh

    Try it with the latest CB build, but with no plugins installed - If everything is working fine, then install plugins one at a time until you find the one causing the issues :)
     
  8. Offline

    gnftoxic

    I have the exact opposite situation here - my craftbukkit servers are progressively performing better and better with each build. I was only able to run one on a quad core machine with hyper-threading, now I can run a minimum of 3 with a steady load average of 0.60 - 1.0 (web server and other misc. items causing fluctuation)
     
  9. Offline

    Toasty

    Don't use windows. That'll solve your crashing issue right off the bat.
     
  10. Offline

    cjbh1996

    That was uncalled for. You trying to start an argument? We don't need that here. Elaborate behind your statements, please.

    As for me, I'm kind of scared to jump into the Bukkit works, I fear having to update wayyyyy to quickly. I liked hMod because it was a few weeks between updates, instead of an hour or two, some of those updates breaking most plugins installed. So, I simply run an unofficial hMod build and I don't have to worry about Bukkit yet.
     
  11. Offline

    M1sT3rM4n

    Bukkit > hMod.
     
  12. Offline

    XeonProductions

    Where did I say I was using Windows? This is a Linux server.
     
  13. Offline

    mindless728

    i very much disagree with you, i run 2 servers off of my windows box just fine (would use linux, but can't due to a tv tuner not being supported yet)
     
  14. Offline

    Toasty

    Then consider my comment retracted good sir.

    cjbh1996: Windows is prone to viruses. Linux is not. Windows is prone to hard drive fragmentation. Linux is not. Windows is prone to registry fragmentation and corruption. Linux is not (infact, instead of a registry, Linux deals with config files). I could continue for another 5 pages, but I'll save you the time.

    Certainly Linux is not perfect, nor is it entirely immune to the above mentioned circumstances, but in my experience, 99% of all faults in a Linux system are user-induced. I will stand by that claim having used Linux for a number of years now, and having run a number of servers (and numerous clients) with it.

    Windows used to be the only OS I knew. How wonderful it was to have my mind opened to the possibilities, security, and reliability of Linux.

    I'd comment more on using windows as a server, but clearly that would start a flame war.

    @ XeonProductions: I currently use b265 of craftbukkit with World Edit, Minecart Mania, General, Anti-Build, Permissions, iChat, SimpleWarp, and MagicCarpet, and I have no stability problems.

    My server's poor uptime rating is due to some users on my server getting out of hand with TNT (twice now). Other than that, I haven't had a single crash. I would just suggest sticking to one build for a stint of 2 weeks, then grab the latest build and the latest working versions of the plugins and stick with them. Spend a half an hour getting it to work and leave it at that. If a newer version of bukkit is released during that half hour/hour of time, don't bother with it. And don't bother with plugin updates that aren't relevant to the build you're working with.

    Bukkit is still a pre-release software. Trying to keep up with all the changes would be madness.
     
  15. Offline

    Daveyo

    same, i am astounded at how good they are putting this software together
     
  16. Offline

    Phaedrus

    I don't think you do understand what exactly what "pre-release alpha" means. There have been 325 builds in like 2 months. It's seen extremely rapid development to get it up and running, but it's far from a polished piece of reliable software. You are an alpha tester, so get used to crashes and unexpected behaviour. If you're not down with that, go play stock minecraft beta. You'll still get slightly less crashes and unexpected behaviour, but you won't have any cool plugins.
     
  17. Offline

    Padeius Etoh

    I do not want to be disrespectful or sound contradictory or out of line in anyway, so please take this in the spirit it is intended, what you have just said is contradictory in its very nature, 325 builds, in 2 months, rapid development, and its definitely not polished. I used to use hMod, the hMod guru's left that to develop this better program, 2 months later, with 325 builds and no end in sight, please excuse a bit of sarcasm and skepticism when dealing with the mess that this api currently is.

    I like the program, it works for me most of the time, I am not complaining, but lets not gloss over the issues of incompatibility and difficulty with which each admin has to deal with, this of course was the exact opposite of what the guru's said they were going to deliver, over a month ago. The OP has a valid point in my opinion, this program does at times seem to be going backward, just because we are all alpha testers does not mean we can not expect the developers to at least fulfill some of what they so brazenly bragged about what they were going to deliver. Considering the situation, they are currently about a month late and still the program is riddled with bugs and of course they have no license yet.

    So please don't tell someone who just wants it all to work, much like myself, that if they don't like it go play somewhere else, its just kinda rude. He has valid complaints, not that any of us can do anything about the complaints, but you don't need to tell them to just bugger off.
     
  18. Offline

    odielag

    ugh. I'll just say that CraftBukkit, from my experience in the past week, is more stable than vanilla, uses less ram (ram stays constant) and runs more smoothly.

    Having a lot of builds does not mean it is unstable software, it just means there are changes being made to the code and it is compiled often. I remember there is some list that had hundreds of things they wanted to implement and more than 90% have been implemented.

    Also, most plugins if you update craftbukkit to the newest version from an older one will work just fine if not better. In recent times (313+) a fix that solved my wormhole x-treme plugin's crashing problem seemed to make iChat (the developer seems awol on the project) to stop working... so I found another chat plugin that has the same functionality with some new features (herochat).

    I have gone weeks without updating certain plugins, but if I see a new feature in the changelog of a plugin that I need I will update them without a second thought.

    PS: I make sure to backup all the files I upgrade/replace before I make changes... This includes bukkits and plugins.
    --- merged: Feb 15, 2011 9:30 AM ---
    PS: My CraftBukkit version 322 server has been up with 22hours of cpu time and java 7.
     
  19. Offline

    Padeius Etoh

    That's awesome @odielag, you are right, there are alot of good things happening, some plugins work, others don't, i have not updated my servers since like 145 or something, it works, i rarely experience any down time, i have like 5 minutes a day that i actually shut them down and restart for various changes, like updating whitelists or permissions, cb typically doesn't crash, i have some lag now and again, Like i said I am not complaining, but i also see the OP's point, i have tried to update to a later version of cb, gave up and went back to the the build I was using cause I couldn't make it all work together and got frustrated, that of course was my choice. I am not even going to bother updating at this point cause Notch is going to be coming out with another update which I am sure is going to break everything just as it always has, so when that all settles out i will upgrade my servers to what works, other wise the "find something that works for you and stick with it" advice is really good.
     
  20. Offline

    Valrix

    There are limitations to how far back you can go. For instance, the Netstats plugin I made was only able to be fully supported as of build 258 since that's when the PLAYER_KICK event was added.
     
  21. Offline

    TnT

    Unfortunately, it seems there has been a surge of admins who don't want to put in much time or energy, but would rather have something that "just works."
    Bukkit is not finished yet. It hasn't even been released as an alpha, much less a beta release. We're all still running dev builds. Even then, most of the time it will work just fine, but we're not at the "just works" phase.

    Every once in a while, posts like this pop up from admins who are frustrated at having to constantly keep on top of new builds, new plugins (or versions of plugins) and bugs. While we're happy to help anyone through the problems they have, they really need to understand that this isn't software that will "just work." Not yet anyway. I always hear hMod getting brought up too. hMod was released. Bukkit isn't.

    I think every admin here can share your pain - it sucks to have to spend so much time on administrating a server, when you would rather be playing. However, if you want to run Bukkit, you need to put in the time.

    Most of these complaints simply aren't valid, and most can be answered by saying "Its still in development". Yes, there are features you want that are missing. Its still in development. Yes, fill would be great to finally sort out the plugin mess. Its still in development. Keep this question in mind: Would you rather have these problems to deal with, or no dev builds at all - meaning you either have to compile the source yourself to run it, or you sit and wait for the release. The bukkit devs would have preferred their product to stay out of the public hands until they released it, but due to public demand, they allowed access to the dev builds.

    This product doesn't have all the bells and whistles in it because they're still being developed. These kind of posts are like sitting at the start of a vehicle assembly line, where the workers are assembling the frame, and looking around and saying "This is no better than my rusted out pinto in the parking lot. Look, it doesn't even have doors - even my pinto has doors."

    Now, if the Bukkit devs had said "Hey, look here at our wonderful release!" and we're sitting here with the same plugin compatibility mess we have now, no built in permissions, and various bugs that need addressing, then I'll be the first person posting saying "Whoa now, what about x/y/z promises you made?"
     
  22. Offline

    mughi

    THIS should be put on the main page in place of Bukkit Can Hold Anything.
    with an additional note that unlike your pinto, bukkit won't asplode if you hit it in the ass..

    ...that came out wrong
     
  23. Offline

    regancali

    Ah, look the fan boys have arrived to save the day and put down the rebellion of the lazy server admins who don't want to spend the time to make their servers work. As of now isn't bukkit like 90% percent done according to the timeline the devs put up. The OP and others have valid points. The pinto analogy is about as smart as, well, why bother, the genius who wrote it wouldn't get it anyway. Ya know you 2 don't have to comment on every thread.
     
  24. Offline

    XeonProductions

    I don't expect it to "just work". If anyone who's ever ran a minecraft server knows, it never "just works". I was simply expecting things to get more stable as time goes on. The newer builds seem to be getting increasingly unstable, so I'm getting kinda aggravated. Also, better memory usage != better stability. I'll play around with the command line arguments, try out Java 7, and debug the plugins one by one if i have to but I'm not really optimistic about the future at this point. Also, for those of you who are running the newer builds, could you give me exact command line arguments you use to launch CraftBukkit?
     
  25. Offline

    Taroone

    Here you go:
    @echo off
    java -server -Xmx1024M -Xms1024M -jar craftbukkit-0.0.1-SNAPSHOT.jar
    pause

    works fine for me.
    2011-02-15 15:26:23 [INFO] Starting minecraft server version Beta 1.2_01
    2011-02-15 15:26:23 [INFO] Loading properties
    2011-02-15 15:26:23 [INFO] Starting Minecraft server on *:25565
    2011-02-15 15:26:23 [INFO] This server is running Craftbukkit version git-Bukkit
    -0.0.0-406-g7b86244-b325 (MC: 1.2_01)
    2011-02-15 15:26:28 [INFO] [Permissions] version [2.0] (Handler) loaded
    2011-02-15 15:26:28 [INFO] [WarpGate] version [1.4] (Polarized) loaded
    2011-02-15 15:26:28 [INFO] Elevators version 1.2.2 is enabled!
    2011-02-15 15:26:28 [INFO] Minecart Mania Admin Controls version 0.14 is enabled
    2011-02-15 15:26:28 [INFO] Minecart Mania Autocart version 0.54 is enabled!
    2011-02-15 15:26:28 [INFO] Minecart Mania Chest Control version 0.13 is enabled!
    2011-02-15 15:26:28 [INFO] Minecart Mania Core version 0.83 is enabled!
    2011-02-15 15:26:28 [INFO] Minecart Mania Sign Commands version 0.16 is enabled!
    2011-02-15 15:26:28 [INFO] Minecart Mania Station version 0.22 is enabled!
    2011-02-15 15:26:30 [INFO] [MultiVerse] - Version 0.5.4 Enabled
    SuperStone version 1.02 is enabled!
    2011-02-15 15:26:30 [INFO] WormholeXTreme v0.7 ready.
    2011-02-15 15:26:30 [INFO] Done! For help, type "help" or "?"

    Alway stable. No Problems.
     
  26. Offline

    robhol

    Congratulations, you're a moron. Can we please try to stay on-topic about a serious problem. Srs bsns, man.
     
  27. Offline

    mughi

    And, I'm fairly certain no one has a gun aimed at your head forcing you to keep searching for posts by individuals you disagree with, yet, here you are.. again...

    @XeonProductions
    I think your original question has been derailed by various ventings..
    there is a thread (you are probably aware of it, that attempts to track compatibilities between craftbukkit versions and plugin versions). I would probably start there. I'm still on build 168 (although i think 330? worked, just haven't moved it to my primary server yet).. but then, I run a private server with 2 users on linux and less than 10 plugins, so there is considerably less overhead there.

    @thewhiners
    as has been stated many times,
    1) this is NOT hmod
    2) this is PRE-RELEASE it is NOT FINISHED YET
    3) lots of builds means lots of work.. also.. builds happen everytime a dev saves their code to the repository.. and good devs make lots of incremental changes so they can be undone if they screw something else up.
    4) ..meh.. is anyone still reading? :)
    5) find a build that works for you, and stick with it for now..
    edit:
    6) if you DO find a problem, find the minimum steps to reproduce it, and post it as a bug
     
  28. Offline

    regancali

    Now this is funny, I don't have to search for your posts, Hell I have to search for threads you and asplode tnt haven't commented on, problem is, its hard to find them, and most of the time neither of you have an answer or comment that actually is helpful, but that is totally my opinion which of course, means nothing.

    Whats even better is, we met for the very first time on a thread with this very same subject matter. My thought then as it is now, wow what a couple of ... So move along nothing to see here.
     
  29. Offline

    TnT

    Really? Most of my posts don't help users? Of course its your opinion, and we all know your opinions aren't based in fact. So why should this opinion of yours be any different.
    You often try to insult me since I clearly indicated in your other post why you were wrong. You came back with insults. If you had anything intelligent to say, or could at least countered my statements with some well thought out argument, someone may actually listen to you. You specifically sought out my one post looking to start a new community of admins, only because you have a personal problem with me. So yes, you do seek out my posts.

    I comment because so far I have helped a lot of people. I hope I've helped in both understanding the Bukkit project, and understanding how to best run their servers. I have spent countless hours helping people out and writing guides to help them run Bukkit. What have you contributed to the community, besides bile and petty insults?
     
  30. Offline

    Plague

    Okay, I could have written a long monologue, but I'll just say this:

    Have you contributed in any way? Donated? Made a plugin? Gave a git pull? No? Shut the fsck up! If you don't like bukkit, go cry to Mojang that they made an incomplete server software and stop whining.
     
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