Ever Notice How Dev's

Discussion in 'Bukkit Discussion' started by VoidingNixx, Dec 23, 2011.

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    'Nuff said.

    We were simply pointing out the use of rude remarks in your posts, and that you can convey your point without the use of them.

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    mbaxter ʇıʞʞnq ɐ sɐɥ ı

    How abouts we just stop the ad hominems and pointing out flaws or aggression in other posts (seeing as yes, there was rudeness on both sides). That'd be cool.

    tyzoid likes this.
  3. I didn't want to post in this thread, but I think there is one thing that has to be cleared.
    @VoidingNixx: I just read the comments to the plugin you complained about. What you told is simply not true. You wrote:
    "Hey there mrmag518, I seen you have had a few new build released. Has any of them contained the nodes fix for PermissionsEX (PEX)?"
    You didn't even specify the problem, but assumed the dev know magically what it is... Now the reply of the dev:
    "There aint really a problem with the permission nodes, it's actually you who doesn't writte them in correctly, but I will fix them :)"
    Split this message: "There aint really a problem with the permission nodes" = It's well tested and works for everyone.
    "it's actually you who doesn't writte them in correctly" = so it has to be you (a dev can't magically know that there is a bug in PEX, so he assumes you're doing something wrong. Again: You didn't go into detail nor, what would've really helped to clear things up, showed the PEX config) who's doing something wrong.
    "but I will fix them" = But maybe it's my fault and nobody noticed it till now, so I'll do my best to help you by checking my codes.

    The reply of the dev is a really gentle answer in my eyes...
    Technius, tyzoid and Vhab like this.
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    It did come off rude in my eyes, personally I would have replied in the same way. Posts afterwards both here and in the plugin do clear things up though, both admit to possibly offending the other party and some good comes of the whole discussion.

    While I have seen some crappy dev replies I just avoided those plugins. Not so surprisingly most of the plugins I did choose are still around today and work great.
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    I think the system is loose anyway. There are only a few reasons why devs code free plugins.
    -He/she makes it for himself and releases it anyway because others might enjoy it too.
    -He/she makes it to learn java, ect.
    -He/she makes it because he/she wants to do something for the community, and it probably was a suggestion.

    In the last case, the releasing, maintaining, following, ect can be very painfull when the dev doesn't get anything except errors and problems from the users.
    I think a simple "like" button would already do wonders to the system. So easy for users to show appreciation, yet a powerful sign to the developers.

    I know I would like it. :p
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    I'll add to that list.

    -He/she makes it to have fun
    -He/she makes it to help others learn java
    -He/she makes it to practice
    -He/she makes it to try new things

    To the topic at hand:
    Sometimes I agree that some devs get pissed off and start flaming, but most of the time that doesn't occur. Most of the time they get pissed off because the people who use their plugins either:
    1. Don't configure it right
    2. Don't configure permissions right
    3. Tell them there's an error without posting stack trace.
    To all those people use those plugins and *above*, just try to at least do 1 of the above. That way, devs are more likely not to get pissed.
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    I think a good portion of the problem is some of the server admins are inexperienced computer users,I don't mean all we have many many good admins around, but I know of my user base perhaps 10% that could barely install a texture pack is asking me "DX will you help me setup a server??!!".
    with me knowing from past experience its an uphill battle. them returning going "OMG it wont work..halp!!" and trying to explain the simplest things like yaml format, or permissions to them while they stare at me with a deer in headlights look.

    Now combine that ease of MC to start the server file, with the enthusiasm but lack of skills to do so adding bukkit and plugins, and you get users that get frustrated and blame the bukkit, plugin, or anything else but themselves on what its broke.
    (again this is directed at the portion of the group that stands out as 'not ready to run a server, but going to anyway because it sounds FUN!"...in no way directed at all the users here.)

    Granted plugins have bugs, and many of the admins here try to work with the devs and give info of whats bugged. But way too many posts I see on plugin threads are along the lines of "it wont work, help!" or "I get errors fix plz!!!". without them knowing they should be more specific, or HOW to be more specific.

    Coming from myself being a application engineer by trade, NOTHING irks me more than getting customers that we are working on patches for giving vague, finger pointing, angry reports of things not working. without giving detailed info of WHATS wrong, or what they did to cause it, or even what they think is broke and what it relates to.
    Its not that I get upset that the customer doesn't know the right steps to help me fix the problem, not everyone is tech savvy. its the arrogance of them not WANTING to listen and learn a few simple steps to help me fix it.

    For example...customer calls and says
    "since we installed the patch the server does nothing"
    "what you mean nothing, it wont boot?"
    "yea it boots, but does nothing"
    "define 'nothing'...OS wont load, our software wont autostart, it crashes on software load, it loads but just sits there"
    "Oh it all starts up fine, software loads, and runs and process files...but it does nothing"
    ...... realize this is going nowhere, and hes not wanting to have to put effort into helping me find out what it is, so I spend the next 4 hours poking in the dark by myself on their server to figure out what this 'does nothing' means.

    I think that's what makes most devs get that grumpy, stand-offish attitude. a large certain group of people using the plugin giving that aire of "Its not working, YOUR the dev, you figure out why, I'm just here to report it 'does nothing".
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