[EDIT/FUN/SEC] VoxelSniper v5.019 - Flexible Long-Range In-Game Map Editor [BukkitDev]

Discussion in 'Archived: Plugin Releases' started by Voxel Box, Jan 23, 2011.

  1. Offline

    Voxel Box

  2. Offline

    shanko

    Oh my... This is huge lol.... I thought I had to select one point with an arrow and the 2nd point with gunpowder, I didn't know i could do them seperately lol
     
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    przerwap

    ;)
    We all learn something new every day
     
  4. WE and VoxelSniper have both been around for a long time, and it seems that only now: VS gets heavily criticized by Bukkit users because of its showcase at MineCon. :/ They're both great, but VS has more versatile brush usage in terms of the types used (e.g. random erode, melt, fill). I also agree with przerwap's 6 point arguement. :D
     
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    Albinobluesheep

    I personally was just annoyed they showed off one pluggin while trying to show how diverse Bukkit was. Sorta took away from their point.

    That being said, I'm glad it WAS included in some form, as I was under the false impression World Edit was the only big/popular terrain editing plugin around. Always like being proved wrong with this sort of thing.

    I probably wont be able to convince my server plugins-admin to install it any time soon. But I would love if there was a single player version (like World-edit has) to play with in the mean time. :-D


    Edit: also
    RE:
    przerwap, what DJ means is you can select a block in swinging distance with the Axe while in creative just fine with only W.E., world edit has something that disables the ista-break while holding the selection tool but for some reason Voxel being added to the mix re-enables the insta-break.

    Also, as a matter of record, W.E. does have a distance-selection feature, you just have to type a command in while pointing at the block you want (//hpos1 and //hpos2), but as you can guess, it's a tad annoying to re-type in (if you don't have a client pluggin that scrolls through your previous commands that is)
    if I were them I'd add an option to enable a second tool (like the gold axe, instead of the wood one, or something) to select blocks at distance, and for all I know they have. I haven't played with the newest Worldedit yet, so my knowledge is limited to the previous version.

    also also
    wait, I thought the gun powder was just like the inverse of the arrow in terms of creating blocks or destroying what ever you've set your brush too...
    (I watched the ateroid field demo the other day, the ability to set block in mid-air that easily {you CAN do it in W.E, just, with more difficulty, as it seems with most things})
    now I REALLY want to play with this
     
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    DJRiful


    Take the Axe other than Wooden one. Type //farwand
    You don't need to use command at all. One thing about farwand it will select the water as well. So if you work underwater I prefer wooden one because it applies to close range only and ignore the water. But this is where it get bugged for having W.E. and V.S. together. Instant-Breaking block is activated which isn't suppose to.
     
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    Albinobluesheep

    ah, see, proven wrong again. Has that been around for a while or is it in 5.3? (my sever was still on on 5.2.2 cuz we're lazy)

    *realizes he is comically off topic, and in the wrong thread probably*

    does voxel work with group manager? or does it require the use of the the VoxelBox Ranks listed on the wiki?
     
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    GravelSocks



    Thanks for taking the time to respond. Sorry if you took offense to my comment about the presenter seemingly not knowing how to use WorldEdit. I think if you're going to criticize another product in a demo video, then you should do it in a way that is fair, rather than with back-handed misrepresentation of that product's capabilities. And again, I am taking NOTHING away from VoxelSniper when I make these comments. I'm sure it's a great plugin. I am still reviewing whether or not I want it/need it, etc.

    However, I maintain that WorldEdit would have been much quicker and easier when properly used vs. what I saw in that video. For example, I can quickly build an entire natural island with it - brushes, cuboids, planes, custom shapes, spheres, cylinders, copying whole areas of terrain, other terraforming, smoothing, stacking, rotating, etc. I also maintain that most people who knows how to use WorldEdit would probably realize that it would be quicker than what was shown. I understand that you do not agree, and that's OK.

    Maybe it's a difference of additive vs. subtractive sculptural techniques. You can creep towards a boundary one brush click at a time, or you can change large areas and then subtract some of the edges, if necessary. Any vehemence around what is "natural" isn't really relevant. It could also be a case of familiarity, as you say. Half of speed is knowing how to do something and fully understanding the capabilities of the tool you are using.

    I'm not sure what the relevance is of the time period when the video was made, but if you feel it's out of date and there is a more adequate demonstration for the product, then maybe you or someone else should replace it. But, that's what it was - a demonstration. And, as above, when the presenter (and you) implied -- oh - don't use WorldEdit and its evil huge squarish cuboids -- it comes across as a gross understatement. Furthermore, if you're obsessed with the "natural" discoidal brushes that perfectly match Notch's Grand Design, then you could potentially do the same thing with 1 block high cylindrical air block brushes in WorldEdit. Or, use any shape you want as a clipboard brush. Or, use wand to quickly select regions and then //set and use a smoothing brush at the end. Still faster, based on how I see it.

    In my OPINION, the presenter did not accurately frame WorldEdit's many capabilities, and was, instead, dismissive, which I conclude must mean that he really doesn't know how to use it to its full extent...or why would he say that? (I am puzzled - is there another reason?) If he didn't have time, since it was intended as a tutorial, for example, he could have said "WorldEdit can also perform similar tasks. This is how we do it with VoxelSniper." - much more respectful towards fellow developers' work and also more accurate. Or, do a full shoot-out and show the advantages of each in a side-by-side comparison.

    And you're right, I haven't used VoxelSniper, but I wasn't derogatory about the plugin. I said it was great. I wasn't judging it - I was commenting on the video. Perhaps you misinterpreted. So, where is the offense in not knowing about a plugin and saying that it's great vs. the presenter's approach? At any rate, the video example is not the greatest in terms of demonstrating the supposed efficiency bump of VoxelSniper based on my personal experience with WorldEdit.

    Ultimately, I came here to evaluate VoxelSniper and what I found after watching 1 video was:

    1. A demo/marketing/tutorial video that was not the best example and was dismissive about a related product. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion about the video. I expressed mine. I don't need to gang a bunch of similar plugins on my server that all do the same thing. I want to see a compelling use case, and I didn't see it.
    2. A somewhat abusive "proof" and deconstruction from you about how stupid and irrational I am, which I found amusing for various reasons.

    ps. Mea culpa on the Grass block ID. Yes - I sometimes have typos. I realized it after I logged out, but figured someone would correct me. So, thanks for that.
     
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    DJRiful

    As far as I know, it doesn't support any permission mod. You need to add them into the sniper.txt file in case sensitive.
     
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    Voxel Box

    You are no more fit to review this plugin than an infant is to take a driving test. Go away.
    -Ridgedog
     
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    Deamon5550

    An important distinction to make is that you are basing your entire experience of the plugin off of a single way outdated video. You ask us to replace it with a more recent video without even looking enough to notice that it already has been.

    Too lazy? Well here are a few:




    And there are many more.
    Try doing those with a version of WorldEdit from 10 months ago...
     
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    RowdyKingDippyo

    Update this to bukkit 1.0.0 please :)
     
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    GravelSocks

    To reiterate, I wasn't reviewing the plugin, I was commenting on the video. If there isn't anyone on your team who can respond to the discussion in a clear manner, then maybe you shouldn't respond at all if that's the best you have to offer.

    As I said, if the video is outdated and does not accurately reflect the current capabilities of either product, then someone should replace it. I'm not lazy, stupid, ignorant, unqualified, or anything else being put forward with highly defensive posturing in response to a video (not plugin) commentary. Are any of you interested in how your marketing/demo materials are perceived? Do you care that the video I mentioned does not accurately represent other products? Do you have respect for those other developers that you bad-mouth? I don't care about the timeframe. At this point, it's dismissive and inaccurate - so justify the claim (not possible, IMO), remove it or fix it. Pretty simple, really.

    I just watched the middle "Arch" video which looked interesting and saw nothing special that WorldEdit couldn't also do very easily with almost identical building technique. In fact, I have previously built a similar arch with WorldEdit - an entire volcanic island as a matter of fact, and did it as a first attempt at a "natural landscape" with W.E. To build the arch, I used cylinders instead of squares, however, but the results are approximately the same. The "erosion" brush in VS is equivalent to the smooth brush in WorldEdit (also has size/radius specs). W.E. also has spheroidal brushes. I wouldn't have wasted the time to clear the trees - just build over them. Post-landscape creation, W.E. has a tree brush and full parametric forest gen. VS obviously has similar functions. W.E. also has an overlay command and a size command to change the size of the current brush. Again - very similar.

    Anyway - objectively, W.E. appears just as fast or faster than what I saw in the Arch video, where VoxelSniper didn't do anything that I haven't seen before. They made an arch in 10 minutes. I made a whole island in about 40, and again, that is not a criticism, just an OBSERVATION. And when I started building, there was nothing there but ocean. I am not taking anything away from VoxelSniper, I am just trying to understand if there is something that VS can do that W.E. can't or do it in a way that is substantially better. Is there a compelling use case (or cases) for VS over W.E.? And please, drop the attitude and try to read my posts and respond more thoughtfully, or don't respond at all.

    Attached are screenshots. Texture is mc vanilla/low-def for the sake of argument. The arch vid obviously has an alternate texture pack installed.

    dayfar.png

    nightfar.png

    daynear.png

    nightnear.png

    And now, if only I could get someone to push my baby stroller to the DMV. <mild sarcasm>
     
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    RowdyKingDippyo

    Update this please! :)
     
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    przerwap

    FFS so you see a post on the main page stating that Bukkit is updated for 1.0.0 ? I don't; and until I see it I won't be updating any of my plugins. Chill the hell down and wait.
     
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    RowdyKingDippyo

    Well, many servers are running 1.0.0! I'll wait for an update from you ;)
     
  17. Offline

    Deamon5550

    Alright I'll break this down so as to better answer your comments and concerns.

    Well firstly you say it is outdated, WELL DUH, its 10 months old now. You say we should replace it, WELL WE HAVE, I already posted 4 videos in a previous reply which are more recent representations of the plugin. That old video isn't even in the first post anymore so I don't know you you can even think it is a demo IF IT ISN'T POSTED ANYWHERE PUBLIC.

    You are missing the main point, sure you can achieve a rough representation of certain VoxelSniper brushes with WorldEdit, but I mean you could do that block by block in vanilla minecraft as well, that isn't the point though, in terms of what you can do VoxelSniper way out guns WorldEdit. WorldEdit has 4 brushes achieving only basic functions, VoxelSniper has almost 70 base brushes and well over 150 if you include all possible types of brushes. A great deal of these brushes perform functions that are impossible with worldedit, such as the oceanation brush which inverts landscape and places water to create oceans from land.

    [​IMG]

    Wrong, correct the Erode brush will smooth terrain if set to the smooth preset, but it is much more versitile than a simple smooth brush, there is also the erosion preset which will erode the land scape, or the fill preset which does the opposite and fill in the terrain, and the lift preset which lifts terrain up. On top of those preset you can also set the parameters yourself from full versitility.

    [​IMG]

    As far as I could see WorldEdit only has functions for placing notch trees, that is trees generated by the same code as those in the vanilla game. VoxelSniper has this but on top of that has a brush which has parameters for every possible part of a tree you could want control of. This allows you to make whatever kind of tree your imagination can think of.

    [​IMG]

    And I could make an Island in the 50ms (1/20th of a second) it would take to place a size 15 ball of stone. Time is irrelevant when ignoring quality.

    Where to start, well with the Erosion presets and the generate tree brush I suppose, then on to 3-dimentional rotation, oceanation, canyonation, jockey, the no-undo versions of voxel and set brushes which use no ram, dome, ring, triangle, the splatter and blob brushes which use seeds and growth percentages, or the extrusion brushes. Then we could get into performers giving full control over data values and replacement settings. And the no-physics brushes which can not be done ingame by any other plugin as far as I know.

    The arch video has our pangea texture pack which is the standard 16x16 resolution. All our videos use this texture pack (except the ones in space which use the Space Texturepack), these texture packs are required to play on our server.

    I hope this post has answered your questions as to why VoxelSniper is the better for terraforming in terms of versatility and power. Not to mention that WorldEdit hasn't been updated officially in several patches and remains broken is several key areas, such as data values while stacking or copying (critical with redstone).
     
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    przerwap

    Kid, the more I listen to you, a feeling of great suspicion that you are an alternate account of sk's grows ever stronger. And all of this has generated from your false opinion/review/rant, what ever you want to call it, about a 10 month old video which spoke the truth.

    The above quote depicts nothing but the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. In the entire video this is the only mention of WE and it is used here to put a mental picture in the viewers mind by using something they are familiar with.

    [​IMG]
    The phrase "but we don't want to use the voxel brush" would achieve the same effect ( to someone who already has USED VoxelSniper ) , but as I have said before: this video was made 10 months ago, when VoxelSniper was not known how it is right now. But you know what was known? You guessed it World Edit. And what was World Edit known for? Oh, making 'cuboids' you say; why that's just perfect to insert an image of something that creates rectangles inside of Minecraft.

    The reason for the depiction of a rectangle is described in the image above. A circular shape is much more interesting to the eye than a rectangular cut-out. At the same time the circle is a much more natural shape and provides a much smoother transition of the terrain, hence why plusnine is using a disc.


    But since you are such a BOSS with World Edit and are desperately attempting to prove it's superiority than how about this: I will give you access to World Edit on The VoxelBox and we each will have 30 minutes to terraform a land feature randomly voted on by ... say an internet poll. After the terraforming is done the resulting creations will be posted here on the bukkit forums and on youtube to be voted on by the general populous.
     
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    Readark

    just wanna know if you will develop this plugin for mc 1.0.0 when rc bukkit will be out
     
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    jinS

    how have sniper? what commend?
     
  21. Offline

    MonsieurApple

    @przerwap @Voxel Box @Deamon5550

    Please do not turn this thread into a flame war about VoxelSniper vs. WorldEdit.

    @GravelSocks

    I hope you realize that video was made when WorldEdit didn't have brushes. Just because it contains a few outdated facts doesn't mean it isn't a good example of how to make a road using VoxelSniper.
     
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    Deamon5550

    I don't think that my responce could be considered 'turning this thread into a flame war'. I was simply engaging in a debate about the advantanges of one versus the other with no hostile intentions.
     
  23. Offline

    MonsieurApple

    I'm sure you didn't have any bad intentions, it just isn't a necessary debate to have in this topic.

    Perhaps a "flame war" was not the best way to describe it, my bad.
     
  24. Offline

    QQCucumber

    I remember in the early days you would not support the Permissions plugin because it was felt that it was too much hassle, considering it was unofficial and the API kept changing. Now that Bukkit has its own built-in permission system, why have the Voxel plugins not begun to support it? It makes handling the voxel plugins a hassle because I have to go to a different place for them and type in names individually, rather than simply adding a permission to a user group.
     
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    Voxel Box

    We use our own VoxelPermissions.

    These plugins are developed by our team for The Voxel Box -- but we choose to release it to the public so that everyone may enjoy it. We're trying to migrate away from permissions.

    Hope that answers your question.
     
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    nick331999

    nice plugin but when I press the download link it takes me to the wiki I looked around for the download and couldn't find it. Where is it?
     
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    przerwap

    It's on the right side at the bottom of the description box that lists all the people who have contributed.
     
  28. Offline

    Meles

    Wow, there's a lotta hate on here :S
    Saw this plugin on the Bukkit Panel video and it blew my mind. As soon as it is updated for the 1.0.0 RB I will be sure as hell installing it on my server as it does exactly what I have been looking for in a plugin for ages.

    Honestly guys, I cannot stress the amount of Kudos I wanna throw at you for this one.
     
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    przerwap

    No problem man, and sorry for the behavior of the random WE fanboy. Last I checked the current release works perfectly with the CB Dev builds for 1.0.0 But it's a good idea to wait for an RB!
     
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    Meles

    Yeah, my server is going to be going public so I'm gunna be waiting for the RB, but I have been hoping for a plugin to come along that I can use to terraform and create new landscapes and things with, and low and behold you already exist :D <3 WE just never did it for me.... Only use it for its Copy/Paste features. But who needs that when I can build a mountain instead?
     
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    przerwap

    So how did you hear about VoxelSniper? And speaking of Copy-Pasting: due to the recent allegations that I do not respect other programmers like sk8, I will finally start dis-respecting the developers and implementing the features of their plugins in my own, superior way. Since it seems that is what these people want. They want a plugin that does it all -- and better -- than they will get what they ask of...
     
    Lunar Delta likes this.

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