Dear Wesley Wolfe...

Discussion in 'Bukkit Discussion' started by Creepy_McCreepster, Nov 17, 2014.

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  1. Why? I mean... I can understand where you are coming from when you work on something hard and realize that it's owned by someone else, but what are you hoping to achieve with taking down arguably the most popular mod to the server API of arguably the most popular game on the internet? You need to understand that some people actually make a living off of server administration like Hypixel, so why would you want to jeopardize one of the most popular games on the internet's multiplayer system for your own personal needs? I want you to understand that I see where you're coming from, but this... this is just dumb, greedy and immature. If the server administration wasn't enough for you, I want to direct you to what is most likely a crowd of pissed off nine year olds wanting to play Bukkit again! This legal bull has gone too far, and many of us don't like what you are doing! Wesley, on the off chance that you are reading this, and you probably aren't going to take my advice, but give up! Live out the rest of your life, tell your friends about how you helped code the API to a giant mod for a very popular game, find a job making games, maybe create a popular game by yourself, just ignore the whole situation and leave Bukkit on good terms. Just look at Steve Jobs and Bill Gates, these two are probably as bitter rivals as business rivals can get and even they left on good terms. To those reading this who disagree with what I say, argue all you want! I love debating, it's a healthy exercise of charisma, but please keep it mature and legal. I want your personal opinion, not just "This is bull!" *gives no reason why*.

    Aidan, a beginner Bukkit plugin coder and server administrator.
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    He is only asking one thing: To distribute CraftBukkit in accordance to the terms of the (L)GPL or to stop distributing it. The fact that we have no way to comply with those terms and have a usable product is a bit unfortunate, but his request is in no way unreasonable. He and the other contributers made something, and shared it with us all only asking that a few rules be followed. They haven't been followed, and he's just the first to not look the other way.
    pookeythekid and ZeusAllMighty11 like this.
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    Wolvereness Bukkit Team Member

    Hi; is the poll necessary?

    And, have you read anything I've wrote?
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    timtower Administrator Administrator Moderator

    Removed the poll, it isn't adding anything.
    Creepy_McCreepster Please stop the personal attack. If you want to discuss about this then please do it civilized.
  5. That at a totally random point of time, and with a 180 degrees turn after two years of looking that other way.
  6. I really don't expect to stop a DMCA takedown, this is more of an expressed opinion than an attack. I see where most of you are coming from when you side with Wolverness, he has a point, but where is anyone going to get from that? Open your eyes, you're supporting someone who plans to take down something endorsed by Dinnerbone himself, (who if you don't know your Mojang employees, helped with Minecraft). Making servers is my favorite thing to do in Minecraft, and now I can't do it because he decided to turn against Bukkit. I don't see why the public is in favor of Wesley Wolfe so much, he isn't going to reopen Bukkit on his terms, he'll just shut it down for good.

    Wolvereness So you shut down Bukkit downloads, then what? Like I said before, what are you hoping to achieve with this? You can regain your rights, but are you hoping that more people will respect you? This will get you a little bit further, but that's it. Like I said before you have a point, but it's against Minecraft and it's arguably the most popular game on the market!
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    Creepy_McCreepster Seems like the only reason you present is that you cant make MC servers any more. This is false.

    I'm sure Hypixel will not just die because CraftBukkit was taken down.

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 13, 2016
    pookeythekid and timtower like this.
  8. Probably not, but picture one year later, Minecraft 1.9 is released. Bukkit would be two steps back, that's not a good sign.
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    timtower Administrator Administrator Moderator

  10. It takes a while to update, usually around 3-6 months.
    timtower Remember, Bukkit was endorsed by Dinnerbone, a formal Mojang employee. He's even part of the Bukkit team! He already tweeted that Bukkit 1.8 is confirmed, he just needs to get through this legal dispute.
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    Creepy_McCreepster He wasnt part of the bukkit team since 2 years ago, as he joined Mojang.
    Also, dont put words in other people's mouths, he never mentioned "he just needs to get through this legal dispute." Infact, even before said DMCA, nothing was done or planned. In addition, Mojang is now expressing zero thoughts about the matter, with the only thing being vubui's announcement that was shredded on these forums.

    So, no, theres no Bukkit 1.8.
  12. Creepy_McCreepster No Bukkit 1.8 and stop the attack on Wolvereness #SupportWolvereness I get his reasoning behind doing so. Please read his posts and also the many other threads on this topic before attacking him.
    timtower likes this.
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    Creepy_McCreepster And if you want to continue to make Minecraft servers, you still can. You just need to adapt to using other software or wait for one of the new alternatives to provide a bridge for your current Bukkit plugins.

    Nobody has killed Minecraft; it's just a change. Change is a natural part of life. We learn how to adapt and grow if we want to keep up. But focusing on the negative side of things is only going to stunt that growth and cause unhappiness. It's great that you want to fight for what you believe in and don't want to give up on a hobby you enjoy. You don't have to give up on it. But you should probably prepare yourself to accept that some things are beyond your control and you might need to adapt to that.
  14. Dinnerbone is one of the creators of Bukkit, but seems to not have been involved in the project for about 2 years. The tweet was followed by the DMCA forcing the project into a waiting state (evolving, if you are positive about it). If your stakes are with Bukkit plugins, give it a couple of weeks, because the deal with Microsoft has just been finalized (or what it's called), and the Spigot team is producing a 1.8 server somehow, using the Bukkit + CraftBukkit code-base, just finished a testing phase (no release yet). In fact you can't do much more than "give it time", if you want to use Bukkit plugins, just the next few weeks should be quite interesting. Or you are ok with using Glowstone (reduced features, hardly any or even no entities, creative mode rather).
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    I still don't fully understand the reason, Can Wolverines please explain it to me. I have lost so much because of this DCMA.
  16. Necrodoom bwfcwalshy asofold
    If this is the case, then I all want you to explain this.
    bwfcwalshy I have told all of you countless of times that I get his reasoning too, he worked on something and he deserves credit for it. While I do think that Bukkit should have done a better job, Wesley here takes it to a whole new level, even bringing this to the court! This may be a mistake that I make and I may not know better on the copyright status of Bukkit, but when did Wesley Wolfe ever gain the legal rights to the entire project? Yes, he worked on it, but when did he suddenly own it? When is it right to copyright a group project that you clearly aren't the leader of? I will repeat this for hopefully the final time, I get where he is coming from, I just don't believe how he executes his actions!

    He was one of the people who worked on Bukkit, and now that he realizes that it is owned by someone else, he wants to claim it as his own. Some say that he has a point, which he definitely does. Maybe even he doesn't realize this, but I personally see it as a bit greedy.

    EDIT by Timtower: Merged double posts
  17. Creepy_McCreepster He never "owned" it he contributed to it and it is under GPL. Which means because it contains his work he has the legal right to DMCA it.
  18. That tweet happened before the DMCA was filed and before the Bukkit staff members made their "independent goodbye" posts. With the DMCA in place there is no point in him alone updating CB to 1.8, unless you work around the issues of the DMCA somehow, which should be a lot of work. Who knows what he is doing/planning right now.
  19. He does however claim that it's his copyright, which is simply a lie.
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    No, he is only claiming his code contributions, not the whole project.

    Its like if a house was built and one person built the foundation and another put up the walls and structural support and someone else did the roof and another person did the decorating. And after the house was built the framer came back and claimed all the structural supports he put in were still his. (Not the best analogy , low on coffee)

    Now you can't actually do that with a house. You can however do that with code. In very simplistics terms the code Wolverness wrote belongs to him or at least it would take a court ruling to say otherwise. He has revoked his permission for CraftBukkit to use/distribute the code he wrote.

    If you would like to continue complaining about something that has been discussed to death all over the forums (try the "search" feature), at least complain about something close to accurate. Wolverness took back the rights to his code, that he had contributed to CraftBukkit. Not the whole project. Just 2/3 of the code base. He has already posted his reasons for doing so... repeatedly.

    And yes this is an incredibly simplistic way of looking at it. *shrug*
  21. So he can revoke those permissions, but then what is the reason of doing so? Why? Wouldn't he already have known that this would be distributed unto the website? What is he so pissed about? Can't find anything on Twitter.
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    Read the first 3 pages...

    If that link doesn't work, click Wolverness's profile, click postings, read all the ones in the last month.

    He's already explained his reasoning several times, he does not owe you your own personal explanation.
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    mbaxter ʇıʞʞnq ɐ sɐɥ ı

    ZeusAllMighty11 likes this.
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    Edit: but the link works for me? :(
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    Same here, nothing explaining why?

    doesn't work for me... I get this message

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    I suppose it is rather strange and extremely inconvenient timing, but it was bound to happen eventually. CraftBukkit was on fairly thin ice the entire time the licenses were being violated.

    Creepy_McCreepster I shouldn't speak for everyone else who supports Wolvereness, but I personally support him because:
    a. he has the legal rights to his code, and I say he can do whatever he wants with it, no matter how terrible the timing is,
    b. although this may seem selfish, I no longer have my server, so whatever happens to Bukkit doesn't really affect me, and
    c. there are Bukkit alternatives; everyone can still happily build their servers, just using a different mod (I personally think Spigot is the most promising of these mods).
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    Wolvereness Bukkit Team Member

    I think you meant to provide this link.
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    what i dont get is why people think he needs a reason to pull it. I mean, its nice that he explained his reasoning (more then once) but he didnt owe anybody that explanation. Bukkit was dealt a deadly blow, get over it and move on.
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    Ah, yes... thats the one.
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