Changing the policy on giving out information on the big milestone Bukkit updates

Discussion in 'Bukkit Discussion' started by pilvimaa, Oct 27, 2013.

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  1. Offline

    TnT Retired Staff

    Today we're still working on it, making progress. 1.7 is a huge update and makes sweeping changes to the server, so our update process is not as fast as we would like, but rest assured we are making progress.


    Its hard to give more than that without knowing our update process. Our update process is very fluid and can change as circumstances call for it, so we make adjustments as needed. Hence, we cannot provide details on our update process that won't be invalidated on the very next update. See our predicament?
     
    Gravity, hawkfalcon, Melody03 and 3 others like this.
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    maddyn99

    Its like watching meet the press on sunday..... More double talk double speak without saying a thing while trying to make you feel good and not telling you a DAMN thing.
     
  3. Offline

    TnT Retired Staff

    This is why I don't make those kinds of update posts:

     
    Gravity, drtshock and HelpfulBeast like this.
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    Melody03

    I can see that. But I hope that you know that for ever person like that, there are a few (unfortunately quieter) folk who appreciate it. :) In life, we always seem to hear from the discontented rather than the happy. I hope more people can start speaking out about how much they appreciate your work, along with the rest of the Bukkit Staff. I certainly do. Please don't let the loud mouths make you doubt that.
     
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    LiLChris

    I agree an announcement saying "We are working on it" is probably a nice idea, Xenforo does have a notification system.

    Even as a server owner I get those questions "Are you going to update to X?"
    Makes me smack my head after almost 2 years and hearing it from my veterans.

    Putting a MOTD/Announcement stops those questions but do bring the "When will it be done???" question.

    It's hard to win this fight, but if anyone knows the game CubeWorld, the developer has been working on it since forever but only updates his community every 2-3 months which is very scary for those who bought the game.

    I wish Bukkit the best of luck on getting us a stable build. :)



    We did not give an ETA nor an announcement on when it will be done, mainly cause it highly depends on Bukkit finishing.
    Until then you are stuck using something that is unsupported and buggy that can lead to issues later on.
     
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    theearlypc423

    I'm not a loud mouth... Yes I like the bukkit project but I do think some management stuff should be changed. Seriously.
     
  7. Offline

    LiloDay

    I wish my server's children understood this concept, we stayed with 1.6.4 the day after 1.7 release and our population was drastically reduced, as soon as we tacked on a patch for a fake 1.7 our population went back to normal. New items don't work and we are on a temporary map so we wait patiently. We unfortunately have a younger player base that doesn't understand the concept of using their previous profile, it's pretty sad.


    Thanks for your work though, we wouldn't be here without it!
     
  8. Offline

    pilvimaa

    Thank you for clarifying your position.

    It seems now certain to me that our request has been denied and the people working on Bukkit are not willing to even consider changing their policy and asking us "what would you like to see changed?"

    I read all the posts very carefully and considered all the different points of view. I think you are in the wrong to cling on the status quo and not ask yourself "what could I do to improve things even more", but I don't blame you for choosing the easy way of doing things that requires no effort and reform. I would have hoped to muster up more of the "we can do it" community spirit but I suppose it's not going to happen now.

    In the first post I made my case about the benefits of more open policies and I don't think there is anything more I can say on the subject that would make you see the light.

    Instead I'm now going to go away feeling angry.
     
  9. Offline

    desht

    I don't get it. The Bukkit team are damned if they do, damned if they don't here. They do this stuff for free FFS. Let 'em get on with it.

    OK, I guess if you don't have any knowledge of coding, it's hard to appreciate the scale of the task of taking Mojang's obfuscated 1.7 server code, de-obfuscating (and remember Bukkit doesn't use MCP), and applying all the modifications that turn the vanilla Minecraft server into CraftBukkit. Having contributed a couple of (small) changes to CB in the past, I have some idea of the amount of work that needs doing, and 1.7 will be bigger than most (the network code, for example, has been completely changed). I can guarantee they're working hard right now getting a usable 1.7 dev build out for testing, so just be patient and it will come.

    (There a couple of people on this thread who seem to think there's some kind of conspiracy here by the Bukkit team to "punish" everyone - grow up).
     
    tyzoid, XD 3VIL M0NKEY and drtshock like this.
  10. Offline

    Melody03

    https://twitter.com/CraftBukkit

    Three tweets from the CraftBukkit twitter today. :) Exactly the kind of thing we need to hear occasionally. It is always great to see a company with its ears open to what its consumers are saying. Please, please don't let the nay Sayers discourage you. Two thumbs up for Bukkit today!
     
  11. Offline

    Gravity Retired Staff

    pilvimaa

    I don't understand why you can think that way when I specifically took time to facilitate this discussion. The thread you originally made your point on had to be locked, but I made sure to open your post as a new thread because it, unlike other posts in the thread, was a valid point that needed to be discussed among the community.

    I personally disagree that a "feel good" attitude created by misleading information is a good thing. I believe that it is absolutely a worse idea to mislead the community and give false status updates than it is to say "it'll be ready when we think it's good enough to be released". However, my opinions do not invalidate your right to have a discussion. In turn, you may not agree with my opinions, but as the reasoning is explained to you in an attempt to head into a direction that pleases us both, please do not claim that we take "no effort and reform". Making such claims does invalidate the discussion that we've had, ending it with a "whatever, you don't care" attitude - when everything about this discussion says we do.
     
    lycano likes this.
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    asofold

    Plugin developers are keen on knowing some things (roughly) - they could live with "no idea", "uncertain", "days", "weeks", "months" for a rough estimate on a compiling development build or even "just" core API changes/additions. I assume that the API changes will be put in earlier than CB implementations, still some idea about "weeks" vs. "months" would help people a lot for planning things. Might be GitHub, IRC and Twitter are sufficient for such though.
     
  13. Offline

    youbecha

    I know y'all are working hard on the latest release. I am curious...how long have the other releases taken...I am sure you (or someone here) has that data...date of MC release, vs date of bukkit release.

    Seems like a few at least were a couple of weeks...the big one took over a month (don't remember which version...with the biomes, and villagers etc)
     
  14. Offline

    xTrollxDudex

    Dinnerbone, Grum, and EvilSeph all work at Mojang. But apparently, I'm not sure if Dinnerbone and Grum are event active anymore with Bukkit
     
  15. Offline

    Dacheetz

    I don't understand what the human race has become. I feel sick reading these comments.
    I see a bunch of people, working with a huge international successful company (Mojang), working many hours for free, to deliver good software....for free, to insatiable, ungrateful spoilt brats.
    Gosh, seriously? Did the world not exist in 1.6.4?
    If you were paying for a daily update, sure enough, bitch and moan, but you aren't, so keep quiet and wait for your FREE software. It will come, it always has.
    If you can do better, then do better. If you've found better, then move along and download better, but as for me, I'll wait thanks.
     
  16. Offline

    apes

    i'm ok with current position; ETA accuracy could be minimal and lead to moans about missed (perceived) deadlines, and we're kinda enjoying the excitement of checking the download page looking for 2915 to appear. ours is a small server, and everyone happy with single 1.7 vanilla world while we wait. it's also helping us with the big decisions about restarting other worlds.

    maybe hourly photos showing devs coding with EXIF date/time overlayed would keep people calm & rational.
     
  17. Offline

    jeffro1001

    IMO it's not that big a deal any more.

    Since Mojang now allows you to choose to run previous versions, you just need to educate your player base on how to go into their profile and select a previous game version.

    My players know that the server will remain at 1.6.4 until there is a stable 1.7 bukkit. They know how to configure their client to run 1.6.4.

    If they want to experience the new features then they can go find a vanilla server running 1.7 or play single player, or just continue playing on the server at an older version.

    Yes I'm checking the bukkit dl page every few hours to see if its been released along with everyone else, but after reading about how this new update " has changed the world" im sure that the bukkit team has a lot on their plate right now.

    It will eventually be released, and then the process of fixing all the broken addons will begin....
     
    XD 3VIL M0NKEY likes this.
  18. Offline

    Magiks

    As much as i would love to sit here and rage at the Bukkit staff about how its taking oh so long to update for the massive scale changes and the fact that they are not receiving the support they did before, I also keep in mind that once they have a stable 1.7.X build they will be able to release a more reliable build for future updates assuming that mojang doesn't make anymore large scale changes to multiplayer. Sure I have many players that complain or have plain out stopped coming to my server since we are holding strong on 1.6.4, but I know how hard it can be to update something like this. I wish all the best of luck to the Bukkit staff and Developers and I keep my fingers crossed for a stable build to be released soon.
     
  19. Offline

    Exdios

    Understanding how hard these updates can be, for me as a server owner, the update at the top of this forum is all that I needed.


     
    nlthijs48 likes this.
  20. Offline

    Tanite


    You've invalidated the point of doing that by admitting how inaccurate such a list would be. All you're doing is creating more work for them. Why would we want to create more work for them when we want them to hurry up and finish what they're already working on? :confused:

    Additionally, a list of things to cross off wouldn't be any better because we all know that people will still ask incessantly about the progress of whatever the next item on the list is.

    Steps 1-5: Chill.

    :p
     
  21. Offline

    Bobcat00

  22. Offline

    xTrollxDudex

  23. Offline

    MrSparkzz

    effortless
    If you're all hot and bothered about there not being an update or the devs not creating a checklist, why not fork the repo in GitHub and code it yourself?

    Also, TnT why is it that I always see you as "online" and with Necrodoom he's always offline? Necrodoom seems to come out of no where and edit peoples posts when they double post. I've never seen him online. :(

    EDIT: I just realized this thread an those posts are over a week old.
     
  24. Offline

    TnT Retired Staff

    Different time zones. He's approving posts from the moderation queue, not editing them, but when a post is approved it marks the post edited by the moderator who approved the post.
     
  25. Offline

    MrSparkzz

    TnT
    I've seen people double post, then come back later and it'll say "edited by necrodoom" and there will be a single post with the contents of both posts. Sometimes I've even seen a little message like "Stop double posting" or something, I don't remember what they say. Or is that what happens when it's sent to the moderation queue?
     
  26. Offline

    kjake701

    I personally think that would be useless and a waste of resources. Just let them take their time and play vanilla Minecraft until it's done.
     
  27. Offline

    TnT Retired Staff

    Getting pretty offtopic here, but that can also happen if someone double posts/bumps, as those threads can be combined into one thread. No editing, just... squishing. :p
     
    MrSparkzz likes this.
  28. Offline

    mattrick

    Bukkit is providing a free server API. A continuation of hMod. Without the, we likely wouldn't have ANY server APIs because most other ones are "a more optimized form of Bukkit". If you guys really want to bite the hand that feeds you, be my guest. Just know that the Bukkit team doesn't even have to update it. They could just quit right now and be done with all of this. Feel free to suggest things (which was the main point of this topic) but its really sad when I see people INSULT other people who have more knowledge on the subject. They know how to code an amazing coding API that allows you to run your server and you feel its alright to insult them for not giving an ETA or apparently not supporting their members. You know TnT didn't have to take this. He could have simply locked the thread and be done with it.
     
  29. Offline

    kazblox

    Most helpful way to progress on bukkit:
    Tell us what line of code the team is stuck on
    One of the Netty users can post a solution
    Everything gets solved... PROFIT!
     
  30. Offline

    LEOcab

    You're losing players? To whom exactly? There ain't no peace nowhere in Minecraft right now. Except maybe those 2000-player servers with protocol hacks, but they suck phalli.

    Anyway, how did this thread get 2 pages long without getting locked? I think TnT 's lock button finally reached its monthly quota, amirite TnT ? Kidding, I love you. TnT is best forum.
     
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