Can i get my money back?

Discussion in 'Bukkit Discussion' started by Mangosnake, May 16, 2014.

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    OK i know this isn't the best forum to posts this on but i thought someone might have experienced something similar. Somebody on my server donated a few months ago and got bored and now they have filed a refund with paypal saying they did not receive their product. They won the dispute because i "couldn't provide enough evidence" however he provided none. Is their a way i can get my money back or protect myself from people like this in the future? Note: I use buycraft
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    Mangosnake if you failed to explain why you think he should not get his money back then no. This is paypal customer care ^^
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    If he took his money back, then take the product back from him too!
    Novustorious likes this.
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    As far as i know donations are made to support a server or community or a certain goal. If someone decides to refuse his donation it is up to you how you react.

    Some companies do have policies where they declare if and how a donation can be refunded. Since i think you do not own a company nor do you rely on "donations" to keep your free service up and running .... i think this is something you might ask yourself later ;)
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    I would have told paypal that this was a donation and that the you only accept donations towards your servers. That should deter any refunds. Kinda of a dick move to ask for a refund unless you truly did not give them what they donated for. If they wanted more details I would have shown my donation policies. If they wanted more then I would send them my prems file and highlighted where the perms where for the new items they donated for.
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    It was probably a 12 year-old who stole his mother's credit card, then the parents saw it on the bill and disputed it.
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    Don't matter, parental control is a must. Does not break a contract and especially when no refunds of any kind is posted the law then protects that money from being refunded otherwise paypal and the parents could get in a lot of trouble.
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    It's not a donation when you get something in reverse, it's a sale.

    If it were a donation, you shouldn't have to prove anything to PayPal.
    Server owner who sell ranks/items/whatever should also keep an eye on local laws, otherwise they might commit tax evasion.
    stuntguy3000 likes this.
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    Card holders are protected against unauthorized use of a credit/debit card, even if it's a family member. Don't like that? Then don't accept card payments.
    MikeA likes this.
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    Paypal does not necessarily deals with card holders tho either. Could come exactly from a bank account or money from stuff sold on ebay. Unauthorized usage covers people if a stranger were to be using it illegally and that card holder must prove it. Family members usually fall under authorized usage and if a family member used it without your consent they the responsibility falls on you to sue for your money back.
    Also remember that you can still donate and get stuff in return and have it still be called a donation. As long as you express that in your terms you are walking free.
    Also, you would have to prove that at least you expressed it as a donation and not a regular sale. Not responding to inquiries to paypal well of course you will lose.
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    Well, I guess that depends on the actual country you live in, but in germany it's a sale when you give someone money and except/get something in return.
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    It was probably a 12 year-old who decided they didn't want a rank they bought on impulse anymore and charged back because they can since PayPal does next to nothing to protect sellers.

    If it was the parents charging it back they would've claimed it was an unauthorized transaction anyway.
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    I have a few year old U.S. Verified business account with PayPal and am a PayPal business debit card holder, and they have many things in place to protect their customers, like me. The OP probably can't get his money back regardless because more than likely he's breaking the PayPal terms of service by being under 18 and using their service.
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    Or by selling non-tangible goods, they do pretty much nothing in that case.
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    That's true I guess, but they almost always favor the person that actually calls them. If you call them and the other person doesn't, you probably have a 70% better chance of winning a case ~ just my personal experience.
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    I found out it's the credit card company that refunded them and not PayPal. I also don't see how they are entitled to a refund. Any company wouldn't let you pay for a service until you didn't need it anymore then take all the money back.
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    Most likely because the card was used by someone other than the cardholder. A 12 year-old cannot legally obtain a credit card in his name and cannot legally use a credit card issued to someone else.

    Oh, and your statement "Any company wouldn't let you pay for a service until you didn't need it anymore then take all the money back" shows that this was not a donation; You are selling a "service" (your word).

    Note that if you're in the United States, this is income and is subject to taxes.

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 8, 2016
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    I put up a big red warning on my donation page clearly stating that a donation is not a payment for donor perks and is non-refundable. I'm hoping PayPal will look at that and side with me shall this ever happen to me, but then they have a tendency to side with the buyer. Kinda like how mothers always win in child custody cases, nothing you can do about it.

    You serious? Damn. That's pretty dumb, though, as I don't actually keep any of the money as profit, it all goes back into the server. I would have to pay such taxes out of my own pocket.
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    LEOcab You are selling a non-physical product for money.
    This is not a donation, since user is expecting a product in return, and you are not giving this money to charity or similar, and thus its a profit.

    Unless you are a registered charity, this in most cases income, and thus you must pay taxes on it depending on your country.

    Calling VIP packages or similar a 'donation' is a lie that doesnt fool anyone, as it would be like a shop that says "donate 5$ and get free coffee" as a standard option. It is basically coffee for $5, no matter what you warp it in, and it is how legal businesses will operate.

    Before one adds payment options to his server, please read up on his country tax rules and terms and conditions to do with paypal.
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    Does anyone actually bother to register their server as a business with their tax agency? I've known many server owners over the years, about half of them being in the country where I live, and none of them do this. Honestly, most of them would laugh in my face if I were to bring this up. Not that tax evasion is a joking matter but in this case it sounds as illegal as downloading MP3's from Kazzaa.
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    You only need to pay taxes when your income reaches a certain amount, depending on which country you're in. And yes, servers do register their businesses, Mineplex, Minecade etc.
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    In the United States, that's not necessary. You would simply submit Schedules C and SE when doing your income taxes. You may also have to pay estimated taxes.

    If you borrow money for your Minecraft efforts, or have some other liability exposure, creating a LLC may be a good idea to protect your personal assets.

    The real money is in making Youtube videos. Some of the Youtubers get over $1 million per year. From posting videos. Of them playing Minecraft. Yeah, really.
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    Would you happen to know what that amount is in the U.S.?
    Just to be clear, though, this is a 30 slot server on a $50/mo plan. I've seen twelve year olds run larger servers. Not one of them 2000+ slot servers costing thousands of dollars to run. All of the money donated stays with PayPal and then the hosting company bites $50 out of it every month, I don't even log in to that account. Taxes, effort, liability exposure, LLC, even million, those terms sound way too lawyer-y to have anything to do with a game.
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    Where to begin?

    I'm not a lawyer or an accountant.

    In the United States if you aren't registered as a non-profit you're not taking donations. You're making sales. Any income you make is taxable and should be reported every fiscal year. It doesn't matter what age you are or the amount. If you're making income it should be reported. To make matters worse - you can be made to pay back taxes and have information requested as old as 4 years. Which means if you're 16 now you can be audited when you're 19 and owe taxes all the way back.

    The biggest statement I see is "Joe Smoe takes donations and doesn't get in trouble". Well when, not if, but when your local tax agency catches on expect a lot of letters to be gotten and back taxes to be paid.

    As for the OP with a kid using parent's credit card. That was an unauthorized charge and let me explain why. The child in question probably took the card without permission and then sent money through Paypal. Well you didn't get a signature or any verification from the cardholder so only you can be held responsible for that. Yes there are currently huge loopholes that let people commit fraud in that manner, but it is there to protect the buyers. If you ever have your bank cancel a card because you have a $700 charge in some foreign country you haven't been to you'll be thankful for those protections.

    I've been on both sides of this coin before. I get chargebacks occasionally and a lot of times I win the dispute and keep the money. I've also been scammed once or twice where I've sent money on Paypal and didn't get what I was supposed to in return. In both cases I disputed through Paypal and got my money back. On both sides I had to provide evidence. However, when you have a bank/credit card chargeback it's a lot harder to fight as the card company doesn't care as much and wants to protect their customer (Nothing to lose). But, those can still be won with enough evidence.
    Onionbro likes this.
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    In the United States, if you're self-employed, you need to file a tax return if your income exceeds $400 in a calendar year. And that's income, not profit.
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    I'm based in the UK but selling to the US so would that apply to me?
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    i just won a chargeback case for 50 dollars, today tho i got 2 chargebacks from the same person 1 for 5 and another for 15. if im found liable i get a 40 dollar fee. fml
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    Mangosnake I'm just saying by my own experience, paypal never let me refund when i buy a "virtual" product which is like a ebook,program,or rank, idk about you, im just saying this
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    Sammy Lee

    I don't think you will get your money back now.
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