Bukkit: The Next Chapter

Discussion in 'Bukkit News' started by EvilSeph, Feb 28, 2012.

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    What follows is a written account of Bukkit's story. If you'd rather know what the big news is, skip to the bottom. However, we'd appreciate it if you read through our entire story as it gives us an opportunity to show appreciation and give thanks to the many people, groups and companies that helped us throughout our adventure.

    When we started up Bukkit in December of 2010, we decided we wanted to do things right. Right from the beginning we wanted to be sure we were bringing about a positive change to Minecraft, one that Mojang themselves would approve of. To that end, we set up a meeting with Mojang to get a feel for their opinions on our project and make sure we weren't doing anything they didn't like. The gist of the meeting was that Mojang "liked what we were doing" but not how we had to go about doing things. Unfortunately, we both knew that we had no alternatives, so we continued along - albeit now with the reassurance that our project would most likely not be shut down any time in the future. We decided to create Bukkit to provide the Minecraft community with better tools to manage and extend their server, but our ultimate goal has always been to give the Minecraft community what it needed and wanted to make our favourite game even more enjoyable and being able to do so in an official capacity is our dream.

    Shortly after the launch of Bukkit, after I had posted an innocent announcement to get developers interested in Bukkit, our project exploded with activity. While I had anticipated developer interest and had planned for such, the added interest from the community as a whole was simply overwhelming. So much so that it had begun to put a strain on my dedicated server and actually was pushing it to the point of hardware failure. Luckily, it was around this time that Curse approached us and offered to set-up a temporary Amazon EC2 instance while they purchased new servers for our use. Unfortunately, the Amazon EC2 instance also could not keep up with the demand and was proving to be too costly. So, we asked around for help and Multiplay's Steve Hartland put us on one of their boxes free of charge while we waited for new servers to be purchased and delivered.

    One of the goals of the Bukkit project, or maybe just my personal goal, was to solve what I felt was a big problem within the Minecraft community: it was largely impossible for someone new to Minecraft to discover the unlimited potential of Minecraft modding. Not only would they have to deal with unwieldy and clunky forums, but there was also no central place for sharing your work. In answer to this problem, we endeavoured to create a new service dubbed Fill which we hoped would address all the needs of the community but were unable to gain any ground. We were simply not experienced enough to run something of this magnitude nor did we have the resources to pull it off. One day we were discussing the idea of Fill and our desire to provide a central download solution for the modding community and the WoW players on the team brought up Curse and the success they've had with WoWAce. At that point it all came together, not only did Curse have the resources to pull off something as large as we were envisioning in Fill, but they had the success, experience and scalable software with WoWAce to do so. With that, it was clear to everyone that Curse was the best route to take and dev.bukkit.org was born.

    When news broke out about Mojang organising a Minecon, the entire community was alight with excitement and anticipation. Even today, I still find the sheer dedication from the fans unbelievable and overwhelming. Though we were also excited about Minecon, there was no way we would be able to go since Bukkit is an open source, free project. Much to our surprise, though, Curse had other plans in mind. They decided to fly us over, cover our tickets and accommodation, host us in their booth and setup a panel for us. I've never met a company that cares more about gaming than Curse: when the possibility of their supporting the Bukkit project first came up, we were all blown away. Curse wanted to throw themselves behind our project. They wanted to provide us with the support and resources we needed to continue functioning, no questions asked and their desire to send us to Minecon further reinforced this opinion we had of them. Thanks to their support, we were able to go to Minecon, have a great time and put together a panel filled with our fans, as well as sneak off to a secret meeting with Mojang.

    Back in December of last year, my team and I were invited to Stockholm, Sweden by Mojang to discuss the future of Minecraft - and most importantly the future of Minecraft modding and the official Minecraft modding API. Having just recently met in Minecon, we mostly knew what to expect but were blown away by Mojang's hospitality and the surreality of actually being in Stockholm with them. Not only were we able to visit the Mojang HQ but we were also given the opportunity to be part of the launch of Cobalt (which was simply fantastic) and got to meet the entire team of talented individuals at Mojang. We spent the majority of our time with Mojang shooting ideas back and forth and getting a taste of what was to come and how we might be able to become involved.

    Which leads me to today. Our meeting at Minecon was just the beginning and after having flown us out to Stockholm to get to know each other, it was clear that the potential to do truly great things together was there and we were eager to explore it. After all, we had already been given a direct line to the Minecraft team, the source code and were actively providing Mojang with (exploit) patches and improvements. The next logical step was to figure out the best way to continue working together, perhaps in a more official and intimate capacity. After careful and lengthy consideration, the best course of action became clear. My team and I had already achieved what we wanted to when we started the Bukkit project: provide server admins with the means to easily customise and run their server and provide developers with an easy to use, properly designed API to bring their insane and cool ideas to life. The next obvious step was to make it more official and with news breaking out that Mojang was interested in developing an official Minecraft API, we knew just how to do that.

    I am extremely pleased and proud to announce that, as of today, the Bukkit team has joined Mojang. When discussing the possibility of a modding API publicly, Mojang was concerned that they would be unable to provide the community with a suitable and powerful enough solution and we honestly feel that our experience building Bukkit will help them do so. Thanks to our work with Bukkit, we have a years worth of experience, failures and lessons to help us develop a proper modding API and intend to do whatever it takes to produce one that satisfies the needs of the community. Now that we have an opportunity to design the official Minecraft API, we intend to make it a suitable replacement for Bukkit, if not a significantly better one, while bukkit.org will remain a community for modders for the foreseeable future.

    Official announcement from Mojang with more information: http://mojang.com


    A big "thank you!" is due for the many sponsors we've had over the life of the project:
    eXophase.com - for hosting the project at the beginning and helping us get off our feet
    Multiplay - especially Steve Hartland
    AllGamer - especially Clinton and Scott
    Our Staff who work tirelessly and thanklessly to keep everything in order
    and, of course, Mojang for giving us a chance, taking us seriously and supporting what we’re doing.

    And to you, our community and our family: thanks for sticking by us through thick and thin, we really would not be where we are today without you.
    jflory7, Acharige, iiHeroo and 88 others like this.
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    As EvilSeph just said on IRC, they only just joined Mojang and have not had a chance to have a proper talk with Mojang about the technicalities (such as the possibility of everything being closed source from now on which everyone is just assuming is a given). They only know what's on Mojang.com, Bukkit.org and RockPaperShotgun.

    Also, I think the fanboyism from both Bukkit and Spout sides is highly annoying.
    slipcor and troed like this.
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    Don Redhorse

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    LOL your talking like bukkit is assuming control of the entire development. Theres alot more to this than what you just posted. I HIGHLY doubt that mojang is just going to let the "bukkit team" make changes. They are probably going to have to submit requests, wait for replys, and possibly get denied on some changes.
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    Don Redhorse

    wait you are saying they didn't think this through???? WOW...
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    They can add packets to forward a user to a different server! "this idea is from md_5 ! "
    md_5 likes this.
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    I'm saying everyone is making assumptions and taking things out of context (which you seem to be doing as well).
    troed likes this.
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    I think the point is, this should have been thought out in ADVANCE, before announcements or anything. Just because someone offers the ability to do something doesn't mean you should take the offer on a wim. It should be planned, thought out, and implemented. Thats the fundamental rules of programming design....
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    And you are also just making assumptions. Mojang would be stupid to not let them have their way, if they are going to pay multiple new developers. I expect Mojang to give them as much freedom and direct access to the codebase as possible.

    The "vanilla" plugin still lacks a lot of important vanilla stuff (creatures, redstone) and in other areas doesn't mimic the original Minecraft behaviour very well. So yes, I do loosely follow Spout development. And the promise that Spout currently makes about how Bukkit plugins will work with Spout is quite boastful, as many (most) worthwhile Bukkit plugins dig into at least some of the original Minecraft or CraftBukkit files.

    I don't dislike the Spout project, but I think they should focus on being something completely different for total conversion mods of Minecraft instead of somehow building the exact same game again, something that may (depending on their server architecture) be not possible, as some of the Minecraft feeling and mechanics rely on it's strange design decisions and flaws.
    Bone008, scar_ and mushroomhostage like this.
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    yeah ofc once again server admins have to rebuild everything... just like hmod (yes Bukkit = hMod = Dead)

    Awesome quote from mojang.com:
    "Many of you may ask why we decided to work with bukkit instead of other Minecraft teams, such as Spout or Forge. The reason is that we want more than just modding, and these guys have always had server admins in mind when developing their additions to the game"

    Obviously not if they said yes to that, server admins/users suffer the most with that new API.
    Real winners are still only Mojang (no need to make API) and Bukkit devs (who get awesome amount of money)
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    People seem to be so bloody distracted with "fan boi'ism" that its really deeper than that.

    Its about the lack of proper management of a fragmented and crumbling community, its about the politics and drama, the secretism that happened within the Bukkit Staff and future. Its about the BS in the background. Not about the actual project that brought everyone together, that renewed interest in coding and Java, that brought so much together. Christ people, stop and think about what is ACTUALLY going on here. Read between the lines.

    Spout is showing that they want to build a community without garbage politics, not some Anti-Bukkit Brigade (like the anti-spout people seem to be). Sure Afforess is more outspoken about his issues with specific staff members, but that's his own. There is quite a few terrific devs in Spout that say nothing and just want to make something that has no restrictions and to make the best playability possible. There is equally amazing devs within the Bukkit community that have made it amazing as well. Since everyone in Spout were bukkit devs but felt too restricted and wanted more breathing room without bashing Bukkit for it. But that can't exist in Teh Internetz. Everyone is always against another in the black vs. white scenario.
    fahlman, main(), Don Redhorse and 6 others like this.
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    Actually your being nieve. Minecraft's first priority is NOT modding, thats why they are implementing it now instead of in the beginning. So expecting mojang to give direct access to everything AND giving them it their way is absurd. You should really stop thinking so highly of the bukkit team.
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    First off, do you code plugins? New api directly effects plugin developers, which effects server owners yes, but still its more affecting the developers. Also programmers should be paid well, not any average idiot can do it... I can code a few plugins yes. does it make me a programmer? no. These people are experts in java and they work tirelessly to make an api so noobs like me can have an easy time making plugins. " server admins have to rebuild everything" ? no not really. not really at all, these changes will happen later on once the API is done, they aren't going to have that same period of "no server mod" like hmod to bukkit. Everything will be fine until 1.3, and even then i don't think any plugins will change much.. for "Server owners" but the code will certainly be a lot different and the devs will need to spend a lot of time "porting" them to the new api.
    Stone_Tigris, hatstand and iPhysX like this.
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    I'll quote what Grum said in IRC:

    Bjourk and troed like this.
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    Bukkit: The Last Chapter :(
    Stone_Tigris, Ant59, main() and 2 others like this.
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    Ok, I was naive. I totally can see that now. Clearly Mojang is only trippling their developer team for Minecraft in size only let them sit around and play videogames, not actually work on Minecraft.
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    Bukkit. <3
    xorvious, iPhysX and RROD like this.
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    Can we all not just remember that this is a mod... for a video game...

    I don't care if the name is Spout or Bukkit or Mojang API. If it does what it promises, and the actual project works (not the community) then great. I spend most of my bukkit time in the Help section, and the people that help there are great. We need to take out some of this immaturity, like trying to make someone look bad.

    I use(d) Spout, I use Bukkit. There is nothing wrong with either and I'm glad they have competition. I also understand (thanks for those pastebins Afforess it helped me with this) that to some degree the Staff here have to censor certain things. No it's not ideal but they have to. Like those IRC logs show (Specifically the last two), the bukkit team has to be so careful what they say because the general developers & community are so quick to jump to conclusions.

    To wrap up my rant, I will be supporting Bukkit in whatever name it becomes because I love Bukkit, I love the Staff, and I love this goddamn game.

    EvilSeph Dinnerbone

    Don't let some of the community ruin what this project has achieved. Kudos to you and all Bukkit Staff for your accomplishments, and I wish you so well on your next projects. I will be monitoring those Twitter feeds like a hawk.
    Azareal, Venatius, xeronut and 9 others like this.
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    Zeroth likes this.
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    You're kidding, right? It seems like half the Spout developers have been in this thread spewing hate.

    Honestly I don't understand all the fighting anyway. Spout will have its place and Minecraft will have its place. Like most developers and people that run servers should be, I'll be keeping track of both and deciding where to go as things develop. I suspect so long as I can get a few key plugins on the Minecraft API I'll be staying there but I can see the appeal of Spout and may even end up contributing. That's just the way these things go.
    Stone_Tigris, TnT, troed and 2 others like this.
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    Well, that would have been easier and less time-consuming had it been posted a month ago. Instead, Bukkit decides to start working on R5, which nearly kills all plugins, and give fake announcements on using Bukkitdev. And to think R5 and the 1.2 build will be anything more than a half-ass job?

    You forgot the part about how some servers are spending hundreds or thousands of dollars a month to stay online. And when you tell them that there will be a blackout of modding for an unknown amount of time... yeah. People get pissed.

    Its sort of a killer for servers that totally rely on Bukkit to provide a decent experience for their players. Same crap happened when Heyo died. Except this time there are x100 as many servers relying on Bukkit. Any server admin of a large server knows that downtimes KILL their servers. Now, we have to wait until all of the essential plugins are updated in order to bring a somewhat fun environment back online. What about those servers that need donations to keep their shit running? Why would players donate to a server that isn't even online or accessible?

    This same crap reminds me of the last days of Americas Army. The Army devs had a solid community behind them, but they decided that rather than keeping the game alive, they went where the money was.
    Tibs likes this.
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    Why kill bukkit? Bukkit project is not evilseph and a half dozen of people, bukkit is everybody who ever contributed to the comunity. Want to be hired by mojand, go, but why the hell kil the project.

    Put someone to be the leader, make the comunity renew, and do what you want. But killing it because the heads area leaving is just stupid and selfish.
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    aehoooo <---

    Exactly. Last time I checked anyone can take the source code from Github. And plus there is already cb++
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    Working on minecraft doesnt mean just letting someone change whatever they want. As you said they would probably allow.
    Sayshal likes this.
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    Actually that was kinda true you said, but with last sentence you said why server owners suffer alot. (ok i dont think they suffer most but alot) There will be time when me and other server admins have to search again for new plugins/ported plugins. Also there will be probaly plugin "gap" between bukkit and Mojang API when we don't have enough updated plugins to stay on bukkit and no new ports for Mojang API.
    Small servers like i have cannot afford weeks of downtime (paying server rent depends on players donations and well... no players = dead server)
    Tibs, Don Redhorse and Jombi like this.
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    Please read the OP again and try to determine what the facts are and what speculations. Thanks.
  27. Well that's the nice thing about GPL or most of the other Open-Source licences. They can't stop anyone easily from working further on it and continue developing ;).
    Sayshal and jwnordquist like this.
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    All I had seen was a small handful of them responding to Spout hate more than Anti-Bukkit'ism.

    *shrugs* Either way, it doesn't matter. The point of the post was, people are dividing over this and that when the anger from many but not all people is that the politics and disintegration of the community since it began is the source of it all. Regardless how things pan out...the community is still dissolving and angry. That, imo, is the biggest issue of all.
    Don Redhorse likes this.
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    Kill bukkit is not stoping people to use/develop it. Kill bukkit is to come here, post everything will change, and make comunity feel there is no alternative for this -I mean, no alternative about keeping with bukkit, no spout involved on this-.
    Kill bukkit is to come here, say oh, we were hired by mojand, we are going, and not putting anyone to be the head of the comunity.

    They will kill bukkit, exactly the same way they killed hmod. Hmod didnt end because hey0 gave up, hmod died because Those guys made anyone believe there was no salvation but bukkit, bukkit that was far from being ready at the time.

    EDIT: Also, that feel when I will never get fill.
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    They can, after releasing API with Mojang, most new people will start using their api and plugins... no need to find 3rd party mods anymore for decent API. That means, plugin devs will start making more plugins for offical API and less plugins for Bukkit... the rest is clear
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    I think it's ridiculous how you are looking at this. Bukkit is not dying, the head staff or not leaving. In all honesty all they are doing is a lot of code changes/redo's and a rename... They are still working on the same type of thing. The only difference now, is they are getting paid for their years of hard work.

    and the problem with that is... This community is NOT DYING. It is moving.

    Bukkit found a better house with a 3rd bathroom, they're moving. Nothing else.

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 24, 2016
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