Bukkit: The Next Chapter

Discussion in 'Bukkit News' started by EvilSeph, Feb 28, 2012.

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    What follows is a written account of Bukkit's story. If you'd rather know what the big news is, skip to the bottom. However, we'd appreciate it if you read through our entire story as it gives us an opportunity to show appreciation and give thanks to the many people, groups and companies that helped us throughout our adventure.

    When we started up Bukkit in December of 2010, we decided we wanted to do things right. Right from the beginning we wanted to be sure we were bringing about a positive change to Minecraft, one that Mojang themselves would approve of. To that end, we set up a meeting with Mojang to get a feel for their opinions on our project and make sure we weren't doing anything they didn't like. The gist of the meeting was that Mojang "liked what we were doing" but not how we had to go about doing things. Unfortunately, we both knew that we had no alternatives, so we continued along - albeit now with the reassurance that our project would most likely not be shut down any time in the future. We decided to create Bukkit to provide the Minecraft community with better tools to manage and extend their server, but our ultimate goal has always been to give the Minecraft community what it needed and wanted to make our favourite game even more enjoyable and being able to do so in an official capacity is our dream.

    Shortly after the launch of Bukkit, after I had posted an innocent announcement to get developers interested in Bukkit, our project exploded with activity. While I had anticipated developer interest and had planned for such, the added interest from the community as a whole was simply overwhelming. So much so that it had begun to put a strain on my dedicated server and actually was pushing it to the point of hardware failure. Luckily, it was around this time that Curse approached us and offered to set-up a temporary Amazon EC2 instance while they purchased new servers for our use. Unfortunately, the Amazon EC2 instance also could not keep up with the demand and was proving to be too costly. So, we asked around for help and Multiplay's Steve Hartland put us on one of their boxes free of charge while we waited for new servers to be purchased and delivered.

    One of the goals of the Bukkit project, or maybe just my personal goal, was to solve what I felt was a big problem within the Minecraft community: it was largely impossible for someone new to Minecraft to discover the unlimited potential of Minecraft modding. Not only would they have to deal with unwieldy and clunky forums, but there was also no central place for sharing your work. In answer to this problem, we endeavoured to create a new service dubbed Fill which we hoped would address all the needs of the community but were unable to gain any ground. We were simply not experienced enough to run something of this magnitude nor did we have the resources to pull it off. One day we were discussing the idea of Fill and our desire to provide a central download solution for the modding community and the WoW players on the team brought up Curse and the success they've had with WoWAce. At that point it all came together, not only did Curse have the resources to pull off something as large as we were envisioning in Fill, but they had the success, experience and scalable software with WoWAce to do so. With that, it was clear to everyone that Curse was the best route to take and dev.bukkit.org was born.

    When news broke out about Mojang organising a Minecon, the entire community was alight with excitement and anticipation. Even today, I still find the sheer dedication from the fans unbelievable and overwhelming. Though we were also excited about Minecon, there was no way we would be able to go since Bukkit is an open source, free project. Much to our surprise, though, Curse had other plans in mind. They decided to fly us over, cover our tickets and accommodation, host us in their booth and setup a panel for us. I've never met a company that cares more about gaming than Curse: when the possibility of their supporting the Bukkit project first came up, we were all blown away. Curse wanted to throw themselves behind our project. They wanted to provide us with the support and resources we needed to continue functioning, no questions asked and their desire to send us to Minecon further reinforced this opinion we had of them. Thanks to their support, we were able to go to Minecon, have a great time and put together a panel filled with our fans, as well as sneak off to a secret meeting with Mojang.

    Back in December of last year, my team and I were invited to Stockholm, Sweden by Mojang to discuss the future of Minecraft - and most importantly the future of Minecraft modding and the official Minecraft modding API. Having just recently met in Minecon, we mostly knew what to expect but were blown away by Mojang's hospitality and the surreality of actually being in Stockholm with them. Not only were we able to visit the Mojang HQ but we were also given the opportunity to be part of the launch of Cobalt (which was simply fantastic) and got to meet the entire team of talented individuals at Mojang. We spent the majority of our time with Mojang shooting ideas back and forth and getting a taste of what was to come and how we might be able to become involved.

    Which leads me to today. Our meeting at Minecon was just the beginning and after having flown us out to Stockholm to get to know each other, it was clear that the potential to do truly great things together was there and we were eager to explore it. After all, we had already been given a direct line to the Minecraft team, the source code and were actively providing Mojang with (exploit) patches and improvements. The next logical step was to figure out the best way to continue working together, perhaps in a more official and intimate capacity. After careful and lengthy consideration, the best course of action became clear. My team and I had already achieved what we wanted to when we started the Bukkit project: provide server admins with the means to easily customise and run their server and provide developers with an easy to use, properly designed API to bring their insane and cool ideas to life. The next obvious step was to make it more official and with news breaking out that Mojang was interested in developing an official Minecraft API, we knew just how to do that.

    I am extremely pleased and proud to announce that, as of today, the Bukkit team has joined Mojang. When discussing the possibility of a modding API publicly, Mojang was concerned that they would be unable to provide the community with a suitable and powerful enough solution and we honestly feel that our experience building Bukkit will help them do so. Thanks to our work with Bukkit, we have a years worth of experience, failures and lessons to help us develop a proper modding API and intend to do whatever it takes to produce one that satisfies the needs of the community. Now that we have an opportunity to design the official Minecraft API, we intend to make it a suitable replacement for Bukkit, if not a significantly better one, while bukkit.org will remain a community for modders for the foreseeable future.

    Official announcement from Mojang with more information: http://mojang.com


    A big "thank you!" is due for the many sponsors we've had over the life of the project:
    eXophase.com - for hosting the project at the beginning and helping us get off our feet
    Multiplay - especially Steve Hartland
    AllGamer - especially Clinton and Scott
    Our Staff who work tirelessly and thanklessly to keep everything in order
    and, of course, Mojang for giving us a chance, taking us seriously and supporting what we’re doing.

    And to you, our community and our family: thanks for sticking by us through thick and thin, we really would not be where we are today without you.
    jflory7, Acharige, iiHeroo and 88 others like this.
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    Oh my god, this is great news, hopefully this means we won't have to wait as long for CraftBukkit RB's :D
  3. Dinnerbone thanks for the replies to questions, I have a few more, if they don't get buried by hate posts :p .

    1) Will bukkit development be maintaining the status quo of the API, or adding to it?

    2) Will we see a potential roadmap of features for the new API? I feel this is important, despite the fact the new API will have what bukkit has (we hope), You are asking for developers to switch over to it, which will take effort, I feel wary of moving over to an API when there does not seem to have been much in the way of improvements/benefits.

    3) Inventory events? Will they ever appear in bukkit or vanilla MC API? (Links to first one really)
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    tehbeard I noticed in bleeding there was a repo for inventory events, so from that I expect they did have plans of including it.

    EDIT: Also Dinnerbone, @EvliSeph although this isn't 100% API related it might be an idea to take advantage of this change to reorganise all of the blocks. For example currently every stair material is a different block, whereas slabs rely on data values for the block material. Very inconsistent. What would be neater would be to use the 8 bits of the data values to state whether the 8 corners of the block is solid or not. For whole blocks all 8 bits would be set whereas for half slabs, only the 4 bits for the bottom corners would be set. Different combinations will give you stairs facing in all directions as well as slabs at the top of the block. In the future it would make it easier to add other combinations such as corner stairs too if you choose.
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    Don Redhorse

    so like spout? and yeah I hope that this will be possible from minecraft directly and that the mojang api will support the same cool things we have now:

    like traincarts / minecart mania who hook up severely into the original minecraft code because bukkit doesn't allow this kind of plugins to run nativley.
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    My issue, really, is that a rulebook is being written where the environment was created to have no rules, trying to stuff the universe in an Earth-sized box. The API will make things easier for the common man to develop mods for, but if mods will be restricted to that API, there is a very bleak future ahead of us, and Minecraft will tank.

    However, if the API is optional to use and mods will not be required to conform, there is no need for worry.

    Only taking into account my personal history with Bukkit and the experiences I have had and things I have seen with my own eyes that have come directly from Bukkit developers and representatives, the former is more real in my mind and a legitimate cause for concern.
    Bjourk and Don Redhorse like this.
  7. meta data is only 4 bits :/.


    And if they don't conform we end up with what happens when I try to install two client mods, clashes, breakages, world being corrupted before it's even loaded.
    Avarice likes this.
  8. I would rather the server hosts the mod and the client just taps into the information rather than having to download anything.

    (Ps, Is there any way to ignore someone on these forums?, I know other forums I've used in the past have the ability to hide posts from certain people... sure would be an improvement to these forums.)
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    Forgive me if I repeat things that already has been said, but I don't got time to read all 14 pages.
    The following is just my opinion, you don't need to share it ;)

    Bukkit was my reason to learn java (with minecraft, ofc).
    I liked how much was possible with java, even if it's possible with (nearly) every coding language, I took java because it would give me the possibilty to work with their code, and I learned very much with it.

    And now, bukkit is going to die.
    Say what you want, even if somebody takeover the code, the majority will use the new official minecraft server software.

    The best thing mojang could do now, is to work with the plugin devs.
    They do a great part of multiplayer experience, mojang can't ignore that.
    They should also make minecraft opensource.
    It sounds hard, but how much time would it take until mcp would cover the new server jar?

    That's it so far.
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    maybe they will build a bridge for "old" bukkit plugins
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    We are hoping to get #3 into the next RB
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    Guess its time to switch over to spout
    i refuse to used closed source bullshit, nor do i see how this is a step up for the bukkit team, other than they get paid.

    I guess congrats to 4 people, Rest in peace to thousands.
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    actually the spout plugin had the inventory events implemented. Infact it was one of the very first things that spout could do. Thou it was called bukkitcontrib back then.
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    Reasons in my opinion to switch to Spout:
    We already have a head start on the new Minecraft Modding API with developing our own server/client named Spout.
    Many to all plugins that currently will be made or have been made for SpoutPlugin (Bukkit) will still work on Spout (server)!
    We don't have 6 people in the team, but anybody who wishes to contribute.
    Anybody can make a pull to improve spout/Spoutcraft/SpoutPlugin or simply suggest something on the forums and it will be heard and shall be replied to!
    Improved memory management, improved clients, more mods.
    The features are unlimited!
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    Just wait that you have a community with 2k+ members connected all the time and the response may differ.
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    Everyone using Bukkit, at least try out SpoutPlugin, just add it in to your plugins folder and add spout plugins as well. All your users need is the Spoutcraft client, and even if you don't want to use any Spout plugins, it still greatly decreases network usage.
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    This is the best 2 month early birthday present EVER!
    I remember waiting for aaaages for the 1.1 bukkit update to come out. Hopefully now things will be faster.
    Your'e doing a great job and I really appreciate how much time you put into developing bukkit.
    Thank you! :)
    Sayshal likes this.
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    FINALLY!!! Gratz to you guys!! We've been waiting for this since beta :D
    Sayshal likes this.
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    I would like to think they will add things to the API as requested, working with the community to continue to "make it cool." But maybe I'm fantasizing too much. In any case, modding is one of the only reasons MC got as big as it did, all of the amazing things people could come up with. I can't imagine they're not all aware of this. If they go on to sqaush that, they will indeed deserve to fail.

    Reasons in my opinion not to switch to Spout:

    1) The lead dev has a history of dumping things when he wants to work on something new and shiny and, worst of all, not being honest with his users about it: See MinecartMania and its sudden and infinite "development is on hiatus until September" notification, where he decided he'd rather work on his Big New Idea (Spout) instead of keeping his existing plugins updated. Users who had invested themselves in vast rail creations had a period of at least weeks where things were broken and the one man who could have fixed it with his pinky did not, even though he was here on the forums the entire time. No, we don't forget. Welcome back.

    Does anyone think Spout could survive without that one person? If he gets bored or sued, it's over.

    2) Speaking of sued, the lead Spout dev said this on his forum earlier, in response to potential legal issues around Spout:

    Well that's not exactly a ringing endorsement, is it.

    And that may be his worst case, but the worst case of the people that would actually be using the software is that they have to change their entire server back to whatever Bukkit turns into. Screw that. I'm going to give the Bukkit folks their shot. It's theirs to lose at this point and they would have to flub up mightily to do so. They know what we want and there's no logical reason why they won't try to make it happen. They know they need to prove to us that this was for the best. If they fail, I'll be the first to lambaste them but they get to at least try.

    Mention the legal thing on the Spout forums and you too can be warned of impending forum infractions for being "off-topic," meanwhile the topic is doom and gloom, literally. I guess the Bukkit people aren't the only ones with the "wonton forum hammer" after all. Pot meet kettle.

    3) And finally, the motley collection of devs he's collecting over on the Spout forums, some of which are known for really just ill behavior here, including mistreatment of users. They are all jumping up and down and fanning each other in their glee over this announcement, predicting doom and gloom for all outside of their realm.

    See my signature for an example of some of the lovely "personal rants" you might subject to yourself to at the hands of the lead Spout dev, just out of the blue and for the fun of it! Then see all of the devs who removed Spout dependency from their plugins after they realized what a pain in the rear it was. Oops!

    They may be "open" but they don't look all that welcoming to me.
    Azareal, GoalieGuy6, fffizzz and 5 others like this.
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    Congratulations Bukkit team. I am glad to see that Mojang was smart and picked up people that really knew both Minecraft and the modding community.

    The time from now and when the Minecraft API is out will be painful a, but in the end I think it will be worth the wait. Bukkit was a much better process than that of ModLoader for and Official API. I am still holding some hope that some client side changes will be able from server, like those in spout.
    Sayshal likes this.
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    The only problem I have with Spout is their attitude. Sure, they have the whole system in the works, but they have nothing that they can call 'complete'. They act like they're Superior to all others, which is really condescending on the people who are thinking of switching over.

    And again, let me repeat myself:
    Bukkit is not over. The Bukkit team will still work on bukkit, but they now get paid to work on the Minecraft API also.
    Sayshal and xcanner like this.
  24. That's about the only thing you have. A headstart. BUT what if the presented changes are to come true? Don't you think that most people will go for the OFFICIAL API if it at least offers what bukkit already does?

    Tell me why Spout started to write their own server implementation? It is because bukkit currently only does wrap around the core minecraft server code. This fact makes certain things impossible to achieve and other so hard that they are not worth the time spent on.
    Now Mojang hired the team to write a NEW Server/Client system with an API already in mind. That is exactly the same thing Spout does but it is from mojang instead of a 3rd party dev-team.

    Do not take me wrong please, i like Spout and what you can already do with it now. But what i hate is, that they claim that Mojang does something wrong while they already do nearly the same thing. It is the attitude of "We already have this...that.. and THIS"
    Before you can say things like that you have to WAIT what the other software has to offer and THAN you can make judgements of what is better.
    And currently the Spout Team has stated that they have to assume the worst will happen: We as developers are forced to use an API with many restrictions and not even as good as Bukkit now is.
    I'd say let'S wait what happens and judge after BOTH systems are released and have been running for a while.

    I just hate how assumptions are beeing tossed from one party to the other and back. There are currently NO facts to support either side so why start flame wars over things we do know NOTHING about at this time?

    I know the Bukkit team has made errors and the system is not the best. But dace it, without Bukkit Spout in its current state might not even exist! The very last thing they should do is honor what was achieved with Bukkit(i did not say honor the team members of the project!). But currently they just bash everything that is not in their favor of things, that is at least the impression i got from the last pages here and on their thread at spout.org...

    Well now that is a wall of text.... and for certain i will be flamed for my opinion, but i stand up for it.
    Shukaku, slipcor, fffizzz and 6 others like this.
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    1.) Real life happens. I have effectively passed the project on to bergerkiller. That's the beauty of open source. When MC gets old, it will just die. :/

    2.) The legal threats a super tiny minority claim to see are laughable. I threatened infractions because they are off topic, BUT offered to discuss it in another thread. So put down your pitchforks. Bukkit censors people without warning. I warn but don't censor. Big difference.

    3.) Huh? Like half of the threads have the opposite tone. You claim to be impartial but sound offended and biased.
    Windwaker, Ant59, Inscrutable and 2 others like this.
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    I have no stake in the childish Spout/Bukkit conflict, but any programmer with a lick of sense will look to what has happened with other projects that emulate or duplicate a multiplayer protocol without the express permission of the original author and act with a bit more.. discretion than I am currently seeing here.
    Avarice likes this.
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    No, like Team Fortress 2.
    main(), Sayshal and Don Redhorse like this.
  28. Good the DEATH for bukkit, bad decent news for forge and spout.
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    Good, maybe we won't have to wait 100 years for 1.2.
    Bronski and Sayshal like this.
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    You mean like Wargus/Stargus that had issues in the beginning only because of their name and changed and operate just fine. or SpringRTS which also has no issue, or FIFE also has no issue?

    The only ones that actually have had issues are MMO projects which circumvent normal authentication. Spout still requires you to auth with Mojang's account system
    Afforess likes this.
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    Good news for the Bukkit team, they wanted to work with Mojang for ages, congrats.
    Sayshal likes this.
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