Bukkit: It's time to say ...

Discussion in 'Community News and Announcements' started by EvilSeph, Aug 21, 2014.

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    EvilSeph Retired Staff

    [​IMG]


    When we first set out to add our personal touch to what hMod offered the community 3 and a half years ago, none of us foresaw the success the Bukkit project would end up having. From a rocky start that wasn't of our own making (hMod suddenly disappeared without warning while we were just starting up the project, leaving us ill-prepared to fill the void left over), we stepped up to the challenge and managed to put together a usable, respectable alternative to other server mods. We even went so far as to improve on the Minecraft server itself. I can proudly and confidently say that Bukkit was and is a success: not only were we able to provide a platform for hundreds of thousands of Developers to build upon and make use of, we were also frequently providing our Server Admins with peace of mind knowing that the latest exploits and security holes were addressed in a timely and responsible manner.

    From the get go we were plagued with issues and obstacles we needed to overcome, one of which we were sadly unable to tackle despite our best efforts: the legal barrier of licensing and permission. When starting the Bukkit project and even getting involved with hMod before that, we all knew that our work - no matter how well-intentioned - fell into a dangerous legal grey area. As such, my first priority at the start was to do things right: contact Mojang to try and get permission to continue on with the project and discuss our licensing. Unfortunately, while we did get into contact with Mojang and managed to have a chat with Notch and Jeb themselves (who have said that they don't like our methods but understand that there isn't any alternative and are thus fine with what we were and are doing), we never did get an official meeting with their business side to get legally sound permission to continue as we were and were unable to sort out our licensing issues. To this day we find our project in limbo with a half-applied license some could argue is invalid and little power on our end to do anything about the situation.

    With that realisation came a nagging unease at the back of our minds that at any point in time Mojang could decide they didn't like what we were doing and shut us down - something we were all expecting for the first year or so of the project's life but, to our surprise, never occurred. Naturally, Mojang's conscious decision to not take action on our project gave us the confidence to continue on (something which I'm sure Server Admins out there can relate to given the recent, sudden and unexpected EULA enforcement) and we even later got further confirmation from Notch himself that we were and are allowed to keep proceeding as we always had.

    Fast forward to more recent times and Mojang have made the abrupt and sudden decision to start enforcing their EULA in an effort to quell the outlook of Minecraft being pay to win. While I can completely understand where they are coming from and support their mission to shut down pay to win servers, it's difficult to be supportive of their abrupt turn-around with enforcing rules they consciously decided not to enforce since the start of Minecraft. On top of this, there are also clauses - which it would be irresponsible of us not to be aware of - within the now suddenly enforced EULA that directly affect the Bukkit project.

    Most notably: "The one major rule is that you must not distribute anything we've made". While the EULA does go on to try and clarify what is meant by "anything we've made", I feel that it only serves to confuse the situation even more so. At the end of the day, it seems that Mojang can determine what is a "mod, plugin or hack" of their game on the fly and their recent abrupt turn-around on enforcing the EULA has us understandably worried. Couple this with the fact that it isn't legally viable or acceptable to enforce the EULA piecemeal and our future is clear.

    At this point in time, I think it's safe to say that it's no longer worth it for us to put up a fight when it comes to keeping Bukkit and modding alive. With large and significant changes coming in Minecraft 1.8 that we'll be hard pressed to provide support for and the lack of support from Mojang with updates since acquiring our original core team (Mojang used to provide us with mappings to speed up the update process), there is little motivation for us to continue limping on across various aspects of the project. From a project management standpoint, it's become increasingly difficult to find willing and able individuals to help out the project on a purely voluntary basis due to people losing interest in Minecraft or people looking for something more. Simply put, this was ultimately the final nail in the coffin.

    Nonetheless, no one can deny that we've had a fantastic run as a project. This is due in no small part to the support we received and continue to receive from both the Minecraft community and the many companies and organisations that have graciously chosen to support us with a ridiculous amount of resources, infrastructure and backing - far more than we could have ever asked for. No amount of words can adequately express the gratitude we have for all our sponsors who have supported us through our journey and ensured Bukkit had the infrastructure required to be the vast success it is today. To list all of what these sponsors have done for us would be a post equal in length to this one, so we will unfortunately need to keep it brief. We want to give huge shout-outs and thanks to: eXophase.com for getting us off our feet and hosting us at the start; Multiplay and Curse for swooping in and providing us with (emergency) hosting we continue to use to this day including dl.bukkit.org and our BukkitDev service; as well as AllGamer for providing us test servers whenever we needed a server to certify update and promoted builds or attempt to reproduce a bug report.

    Last, but definitely not least, we'd like to thank the many staff, both past and present, that have volunteered countless hours over the years. I am at a loss for words to express just how much these people have meant to the project and to myself. The core team who have constantly worked hard to update to every new Minecraft version, while adding in new API and improving the server itself. The BukkitDev staff who spend countless hours checking over the fantastic plugins our community creates. Our moderation staff keeping our forums orderly and safe for all people seeking out a great community to be a part of. Additionally, the many unsung people who have helped in various ways despite having no official title, simply because there was work to do. Finally, my administrators, who have tirelessly helped me keep the project functioning as a whole. I would especially like to thank TnT and mbaxter for sticking through it with me to the end, always ready to discuss an issue and provide me with advice.

    It's been a fantastic 3 and a half years of providing what we believe to be the absolute best modding platform for the wonderful Minecraft community to use. We really enjoyed seeing the amazing feats our many Developers and Server Admins achieved with the product we provided and continue to be amazed every day at the ingenuity our community shows. Thanks for everyone's continued support! It has and will continue to mean the world to us. Together we were able to provide a Minecraft server used by hundreds of thousands of servers out there (with our last Recommended Build having over 2.6 million downloads!), which is certainly something to be proud of and a great note to end on.

    This is the end, it's time to say goodbye. It's been an amazing run and we achieved much more than anyone thought was possible, even ultimately culminating in Mojang hiring our original core team. Unfortunately, all good things come to an end and the Bukkit project has run its course, leaving me to make one final - incredibly difficult - decision to shut down the project I’ve poured 3 and a half years of my life into which means so much to me. We're no longer able to confidently distribute our modified versions of the Minecraft server and it is no longer smart for us to continue with our update process. Sadly, this means we will NOT be updating Bukkit nor CraftBukkit for Minecraft 1.8 and, since Minecraft 1.7.10 introduced the EULA enforcement, we will be placing the project under a code freeze for the foreseeable future. Furthermore, due to obvious legal reasons we will not be helping anyone else complete any updates nor sharing our methods despite any desire to the contrary. Although the project itself will essentially be no more, we'll continue to support our community, the forums, IRC and BukkitDev as long as we are able and as long as our partners support us with the resources and infrastructure to do so.

    As for us? Well, who knows? Maybe we'll find another game, program or project to be passionate about and we'll be back with a vengeance? Only time will tell, but I hope that we'll see you around the next passion-project of ours when it happens :)


    [lukegb]There's more to come on this. Please read this for more information about where we stand.[/lukegb]
     
    Keetveter, dvargas135, 0566 and 59 others like this.
  2. Offline

    Aikar

    Don't over-react without understanding what's going on.

    Mojang is the good guys here. You can still read what he said, but its no longer true.

    tl;dr: EvilSeph has quit the project and Mojang is going to help update it.
     
    ZeusAllMighty11 likes this.
  3. Offline

    Gamecube762

    YepImRobbie Then read it, I was still able to read it while it was crossed out. If its to hard to read, then copy and paste all of it into notepad or something.

    I also suggest you start reading the comments from the start to catch up on whats going on.

    Edit: This is good for catching up:
    Up to date as far as I know (open)
     
  4. Offline

    Aikar


    IMO, the fact that they let the project go on even when it was illegal in the terms of the DMCA and many other countries copyright laws, and even more so now that they are keeping the project alive instead of letting it shut down which would cause massive harm to the server community and plugin developers, is a pretty major "Thank You" from Mojang to everyone.

    And i'm pretty sure Mojang has said thank you to the community multiple times, including inviting many modders to Minecon to run panels.

    Plus, Mojang owning Bukkit helps secure the legality of the software and remove concerns that Mojang would shut the project down over legal issues.
     
    Enzer likes this.
  5. Offline

    Sage905

    Perhaps it was altruism. Perhaps it was a recognition of the symbiotic nature of the relationship. I certainly don't know.

    We've heard from Dinnerbone that Bukkit will effectively die at some point, since it is not going to be the official API. I'm extremely interested in seeing how Mojang manages the modding community in the post-open-source modding API era.
     
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    TmanDaCool1

    I'm confused, Is bukkit dead or is bukkit saved?
     
  7. Offline

    Enzer

    Your stated case is why we have courtrooms. I would need more information on what licenses the plugin falls under (I am assuming GPL/LGPL) as well information from FloydATC or Trevor. Ownership could be very well could be fully transferred to you, but there is not enough information for me to possibly make a call and I am not the person to ask in either case. :p

    The issue I am seeing with your statement is that Mojang has not taken up the stance of being a maintainer of the code, but owner because they own the rights to the project and repo. Individual contributors rights is a gray area that hasn't been properly argued out in court for this kind of situation, but contributing code to someone's project does not automatically grant you any additional rights unless such were stated in the project's terms. This is why a lot of open projects will have terms stating that you agree to hand over copyright of any code you submit to the project because there are no real laws that fully document this situation and contributing code under certain licenses opens up gray areas for the rights of the contributors not the project owner. Again, this is why I mentioned that a lot of larger entities suggest that you write your code to your own project under a license such as LGPL and have the other Project merge from that, then they are bound to recognize you fully.

    The issue is that GPL and LPGL does not protect contributors to a project, it only has to do with the creator of the project and those who use it. As there is no laws or license or terms that is granting specific joint ownership to contributors in regards to Bukkit, Mojang is within legal rights to do whatever they please.

    The other thing to remember is that this isn't just a Mojang thing, acquisition of code started when Curse bought it from Dinnerbone, and while I may judge Mojang's bussiness sense at times, the actual people who run Curse have enough practice in acquiring similar things that I trust that they knew their rights in buying Bukkit.

    All in all if its just a question of do the contributors still own the code that they themselves contributed the only truly legal answer we have is "Maybe", because a lot of this has never been challenged in court.



    Unless the specific project has written terms that you relinquish ownership, this is regardless of license. This is not to say Bukkit does because I have not investigated the matter. It is still a practice you'd want to follow regardless because it creates a proper paper-trail for yourself.
    It's not much of a legal grey area at all. Unless explicitly agreed to, a contributor does _not_ give up their copyright simply by contributing. Please see my above link to the softwarefreedom.org site.

    I have not seen Mojang overreach their claim on ownership. For the past two and a half years Mojang has been hands off on the project and has only stepped in to say "No, you cannot shut down the project as we own the project not you" because only the owner of the project can shut it down. That has literally been the extent of Mojang's use of the ownership of Bukkit outside of granting Bukkit protections from restrictions found in the EULA.

    So really I don't know what fight you are trying to pick. You keep bringing up ownership of the code when individual code rights only matter if Mojang changes the license that Bukkit uses, in which case it could still very well be there right to change the license regardless of contributions. But that is hypothetical and belongs in the realm of conspiracy.txt.

    Refuting Mojang's ownership would only hurt Bukkit because it completely removes Bukkit's immunity to the EULA, one of the main things EvilSeph contributed to his decision to shut down Bukkit. Mojang's relationship with Bukkit has been nothing but benificial for the Bukkit community at large.

    And I agree that contributors should be given credit, I have never stated otherwise (and again is why I pointed out that people should follow ways to keep proper documentation on their work) and it is why you can look up individual contributors on the repo. Mojang isn't belittling anyone here, nor are they trying to make this an issue of "mwahaha your code is ours", they are simply stating that the Project belongs to Mojang and it can only be Mojang's decision to shut it down and if the current developers no longer want to work on it, Mojang will figure out something so the project can continue on. And even thing, if Mojang shuts down Bukkit in favor of their own Plugin API, because Bukkit is under GPL/LGPL literally anyone can just fork it and continue it on from there like people do already.

    I think we are arguing different points and catching each other in the crossfire. :p


    Bukkit is saved! Mojang will not allow Bukkit to shut down and Dinnerbone is personally going to make sure it updates to 1.8. :)
     
  8. Offline

    Rydian

    Dinnerbone has stated multiple times that Bukkit will not be the official API because Bukkit isn't good enough to do it.

    https://twitter.com/Dinnerbone/status/493853365911453696
    https://twitter.com/Dinnerbone/status/453191322602852352
    And in fact he said it again just yesterday.
    https://twitter.com/Dinnerbone/status/502390930545311744

    Besides that... "Bukkit" may be a general-purpose modding API, but let's get serious: the vast majority people only cared about it for server plugins, via CraftBukkit. The official API will cover far more, specifically stuff in the client that server plugins alone can't touch.

    Look at all the behind-the-scenes changes in the client in 1.7 (and especially 1.8), stuff like...
    - Editable block models in resource packs.
    - Custom held item models for items, in resource packs.
    - Sounds in resource packs.
    - The movement of blocks to names instead of pure IDs.
    - Loading in external files and libraries to the client and updating them separately from the main JAR.
    - Official shader support, with PoC shaders included.
    Not to mention the numerous systems that were rewritten to allow for expansion later.

    Please don't take this as a personal insult... but the Bukkit community seems to think that they're the only real modding community, when they're not. There's tons of mods and tons of ways to tweak Minecraft that aren't directly related to server plugins, and the new API and newer versions of Minecraft are trying to account for all of that, when Bukkit does not since it was designed from the ground up with a more limited scope and goal.
     
    Enzer likes this.
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    Willoxey

    We will miss you :'( good job bukkit team you are the best :'( i cant belive that you are doing this but... goodbye :'(
     
  10. Offline

    obscurehero

    the project is ending soon with the PluginAPI, though, right?
     
  11. Offline

    Enzer

    Depends on what you'd consider soon. Mojang would probably not support the project themselves when the PluginAPI is made, but it could be a year or more before that is out. Regardless the project could either be handed off by Mojang or forked by anyone and continued from there. My guess is that the future PluginAPI will include functions similar to Bukkit and there will be a way for plugin authors to port their plugin to the new system. Time will tell, but for the near future there isn't much of an issue.
     
  12. Offline

    sablednah

    "soon" being a very flexible time lol - likely months :)

    I'm hoping - at least for the early days - for a BukkitBridge. I hope too much ;)

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 9, 2016
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    lukegb Retired Staff

    I've updated my tag on the first post and removed the strikeout tags from EvilSeph's original post for easier reference if you want to read what the original post said.
     
  14. Offline

    ZachBora

    Inscrutable likes this.
  15. Offline

    Sage905

    I would love to see a mock trial around these issues, in order to get a better understanding of the way the law sees Copyright and ownership. I don't think there's much more point for you and I to debate it here, since we don't seem to be coming together on a conclusion we can both agree upon. I maintain that the creator maintains ownership of their code, and you believe that Mojang owns it because it was contributed to a repo that they control. I suspect the issue is more complicated than either of us are prepared to argue. :) Also, there is a whole separate issue around the legality of the parts of Bukkit that touch the core server and issues around the reverse-engineering of the code, etc. I don't think any further discussion of that here is productive. Again, a mock trial would be fascinating to learn from. Even trying to figure out what jurisdiction to hold it in would take a long time, let alone who are the parties involved. :)


    It may not meet his criteria, but it meets that of a vast number of server operators. :)

    I am not easily offended, though I often offend easily. :)

    Ever heard of the phrase "boiling the ocean"? Sometimes, "good enough today" is better than "perfect, but never released". Clearly, Mojang has new motivation to get the API out, but the real challenge they face is the transition... Will there be enough community developers willing to develop for the new API to make it as successful as Bukkit was? Who will manage the plugin submissions / distributions? Who will provide support on the API? Who will deal with the stream of n00bs and trolls? (Yes, I know my toe is on the line, there) :)

    Bukkit may not have been perfect, but hot damn, wasn't it successful? Will Mojang be as successful doing it by themselves? Will they be able to rally the community the same way that Bukkit did? Perhaps, if they can replace the void with something that the community is equally (or more likely) to rally around. It won't be easy, though. And it's going to take a _lot_ of work... Just ask EvilSeph, TnT, or anyone else with an @ beside their name in #bukkit, or #bukkitdev.

    -Sage
     
  16. Offline

    EDWIN3150

    Okay ShadyPotato.
     
  17. Offline

    Rydian

    The same people who manage texture packs.
    </semi-rhetorical-answer>

    Your reply is still assuming that everything revolves around modded servers and their plugins.
    It does not. Bukkit is not the core of the Minecraft modding world like some people think it is.
     
  18. Offline

    Sage905

    This is the second time you've said this, despite the fact that I never implied that it was. *looks to URL bar, sees forums.bukkit.org*. This discussion isn't really related to the client side mods, or texture packs. But since you brought it up...

    When I download a server plugin from bukkit.org, I rarely think twice about whether or not it's secure, or going to mangle my system. On the other hand, my children are not allowed to install MC mods, without my supervision, because there's a lot of malware out there. Yet another service to the community that Bukkit has provided. Just as server mods are not "all" there is to MC, neither is the CraftBukkit server all there is to Bukkit. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

    -Sage
     
  19. Offline

    JasonDL13

    Well I quit Minecraft and coding awhile ago. But goodbye. Thanks for what you have done.

    Good luck for whatever you do in life.
     
  20. Offline

    KingFaris11

    What a co-incidence that I just quit plugin development on the same morning this was posted.​
     
  21. Offline

    Rydian

    You are assuming that everything either is run as Bukkit's collection runs, or has to be run as Bukkit's collection runs for sanity's sake? I'm trying to point out that Bukkit is not the whole of Minecraft modding, and that other facets of it have run properly in the past and are slated to run more smoothly in the future with the inclusion of the API.

    This discussion evolved into what the modding API is going to be.
    And it's going to be more than CraftBukkit alone was.
    Thus me mentioning other facets of modding the game.

    Obvious answer: Somebody will make a site/system that will be community-trusted ror expand off of one of the existing ones. Bukkit for Bukkit plugins, how the official Minecraft forums have trusted threads/plugins, etc.
     
  22. Offline

    DuB_B_O_S

    C'mon! i just got in to Bukkit and learn abut coding etc and now Mojang is taking Bukkit over...
    But thx for all helps and All!

    #GoodByeBukkit:(
    -Duby
     
  23. Offline

    ItsEnderYT

    I cant stand this, mojang has made a big mistake Alll minecraft server will be the same, and all the work you guys spent is being piled up and burnt to a crisp, it was a good run, hope mojang changes there mind. goodbye you will be mist
     
  24. Offline

    tairabiteru

    Bukkit was the first Minecraft server I've ever used. I even used it before I used the vanilla server. My server's had been running bukkit for about a year and a half before I switched to Spigot for efficiency reasons, but my ride with bukkit was one of the best. Bukkit effectively gave me a drive to learn the ins and out of linux as well, so for that I thank all of you.

    Even though bukkit isn't going away, it feels like the end of an era. Thank you everyone who has ever worked on bukkit, and even everyone who has ever worked on a plugin. To quote my father, "It's been real."
     
  25. Offline

    BlueMustache

    desht
    I thought that bukkit was still alive.
    Mainly because of Mojang's Dinnerbone's involvement.
    But thnx anyway.

    desht
    Even though now I know that bukkit isnt leaving.
    Which is great! :D
    I was super depressed today, since I thought it was going to be removed.
    But then again, I doubted a bit.
    Even though a crisis was adverted, don't you think we should do something.
    Such as a big database of all CB builds, and plugin owners submitting their plugin jars, so we have a somewhat have an intact database of all Bukkit things, for future use, if the plug is ever pulled?

    -Blue

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 9, 2016
  26. Offline

    Robin Bi

  27. Offline

    desht

    Whatever you say. I'll keep helping out in the forums and writing plugins, and you (and all the other semi-literate trolls here) can go, because Bukkit is dead, right? Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
     
  28. Offline

    Aikar

    Bukkit as a brand may die, but bukkit as a software will still continue past 1.8. Who is the maintainer will be a question to see answered.

    The official API will be nice and all, but no-ones going to want to wait months between new API additions.

    Projects like Spigot will continue to prosper providing people like me a more relaxed way to contribute to the Minecraft Server software and API, without all of the politics and delay involved.

    Here's hoping that the API and the server software is 'good enough' to the point that the massive fundamental changes CraftBukkit has done is not needed, and its then down to new API and 'git am applyable patches' level of maintenance is all that is needed for a more fast paced API/More configurable/Improved code version can be ran.
     
  29. Offline

    carbuilder

    Thank you all for everything you have done. Craftbukkit has changed minecraft and made it more enjoyable with plugins and such. All of you will forever be missed and such a great job all of you have done. I have always admired the bukkit team and i know its time to say goodbyes but may all of your futures be as bright as the brightest star lighting our universe and may all of your future projects prosper with fame and glory.

    Good luck to all of you and thanks for everything youve truly BEEN the difference we've all been waiting for!

    Best wishes to you all,
    Carbuilder

    #1Bukkit Fan out there
     
  30. Offline

    Aevum

  31. Offline

    tehface


    whatevever your just pissed because you can't make any more money off a someone else's hard work... mojang have a right to say " hey wait a min... " its their's to do as they wan't.. and you think it may die? lulz you're a joke mate
     
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