About bukkit =)

Discussion in 'Bukkit Discussion' started by zipron, Mar 9, 2012.

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    Why is everyone jumping down the Spout team's throat? zipron - Show me where they are "Attacking" Bukkit, oh wait you mean that part where they are expressing an opinion on whats to come? Afforess is right, Bukkit will soon become dead, but would still be the gateway to Minecraft and plugin development.
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    I don't think, but ofcourse you can have your opinion
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    I've been with Bukkit since nearly the beginning, I can assure you that it is going downhill. Everyone knows it, it's just common fact, they are letting Bukkit die. The things that go on around here are not nice things, you may not know about them, but they happen. I would rather not discuss them here in fright of getting this post deleted, but feel free to PM me.

    Also, do you think I want to abandon something I have spent a lot of dedicated hours making plugins to? Of course not! I would have loved for the Bukkit community to stay strong and go in the direction it should have gone in. It brings me no joy to watch Bukkit crash and burn (and trust me it will). On the other hand, the Spout project was born out of this and I wouldn't have it any other way. You can hate on it, you can bash Afforess for that post, but in the end, Spout has nothing to do with Bukkit anymore. Affy even clearly states that this change means nothing for the Spout project. I don't know where all this hate comes from, but it certainly spawned from the users and not the admins/mods. Think of the relationship between the Boston Redsox and the New York Yankees: The fans of both teams are ecstatic and would probably tear the others head of if given the chance. The same thing happened with Spout and Bukkit's relationship.

    Let me give you a brief history on the Spout project and how it was born. Afforess began circa... last summer (I think?) on a plugin for Bukkit called BukkitContrib, yes, a contribution to the wellness of Bukkit. The idea was that he would create a client mod for BukkitContrib that users could install allowing for features such as custom capes, custom skins, custom music, etc. BukkitContrib was moderately successful but the real issue was that it wasn't the easiest thing to install. That's where alta189 comes in. alta designed the launcher and soon, a few more members joined the team, and Spout was born. Fast forward a bit, and we find our self a few months ago. Spout was rapidly growing but very bluntly hit a wall. Spout couldn't grow because CraftBukkit severely limited Spout's potential. Thus, the Spout server and the Vanilla project were born. Despite what you think, Spout was not created to spite Bukkit in any way. So I ask you again, why the hate?
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    Because I don't want bukkit to die like you say.. I cannot understand why they want to throw away such a nice project...
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    Because the team has a conflict of interest, the are hired by Mojang, it would be silly to continue working on Bukkit when the Minecraft API comes out. Which could be sometime down the line, no one ever said the Bukkit project is dying now it will most likely be a few months before we see that happen, but it is a zombie, I'm guessing that it will only be maintained while the Bukkit team is working on the MinecraftAPI.
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    I'd like to ask Spout, why the hate?

    There's nice ways to go about things.
    Which unfortunately Spout representatives seem to be unable to do.

    My gripe has never been with the Spout project and their goals.
    It's always been with the inflammatory and condescending way they go about things.
    zipron likes this.
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    Do you have a credible source to back this up?
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    Every other post made by Afforess, including the one posted in the OP, for starters.
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    That's really a matter of opinion then, if you don't have a direct quote that is clearly hostile, then I can't really agree with you. :|
    Inscrutable likes this.
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    Most of us here are in denial that bukkit is leaving.
    Guy_de_Siguro and Don Redhorse like this.
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    That is your opinion and you're entitled to it.
    Similarly I am to mine and there seems to be a fair amount of people in this thread alone that seem to share it.
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    we're talking about fact for three pages. Who can give facts that bukkit will soon stop?
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    http://pastie.org/3484841 - No one has said that Bukkit is going to die instantly, it will take many months to write the Minecraft API, once that is done, why would they continue Bukkit? Minecraft API is basically Bukkit's replacement.
    zipron likes this.
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    Then why all the fuss? especially from Afforess
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    He simply asked you for some sources of the slander & hate that is being tossed down from the Spout Team. That's all it is. No opinion, no making opinions, simply asking for sources. If this is to be a credible discussion and not a game of 'internet grab-ass' people need to cite sources to contribute to the discussion in a meaningful way.

    zipron I think you've completely lost track of what has gone on here in totality.
    Windwaker likes this.
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    have you actually read everything and the quotes linked by windwaker? I mean, this thread started with "why does afforess sais bukkit is a zombie and will die in a few months" and they stated that it is true. So I asked for the so caled "facts", and it appears (quotes linked by windwaker) that bukkit will be very active the next months, and when that's over, most likely the mojang API is done, I still don't see a reason why afforess flames at bukkit to promote his own project. (am I on track?)

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    So you see no differences in Bukkit as a community & project compared to the projected Mojang API? Which...is essentially what Afforess made considerable amount of points about it.

    Yes, I've been keeping track of this since it started...Afforess pointed out it is a Zombie, in that it will die soon...but not yet.
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    We finally agree!


    Why is the Bukkit transition a big deal? Try weeks of downtime for most plugins.
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    lol I never made a big deal about the bukkit transition, it will be awesome when the mojang API is finished... I made a point of your project and you flaming...
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    Yes, with Mojang in charge, nothing could go wrong!

    *looks at performance from 1.8.1 to 1.2.3*

    Sorry, facts about past Mojang endeavors don't support your optimism. MC would be better if it was open source.
    emericask8ur likes this.
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    According to jeb on twitter , Bukkit is already working on something for Mojang (update 1.2.4)
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    dude, I'm sorry but do you know how pathetic you sound? yes mojang has a lot of bugs, but have you ever looked at your own project? there is a reason bukkit has a lot more users than spout (also the plugin).. And even if bukkit dies, mojang API will be there, made by the guys who developed bukkit for over a year? and you know the best thing? They are getting paid! Minecraft is such a popular game, and Mojang HAS money. And you can say your project is a piece of art, cannot be paid for, but in the end, money is a big issue, and the reason why mojang can develop the game, and hire bukkit to make a brand new, better API... if bukkit dies, there will be a better alternative and it won't be spout... stop flaming at other projects while your own isn't that good as well...
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    Plugin developers didn't create Bukkit, they created plugins for a Bukkit Server. Just like the API changed between hMod and Bukkit causing plugins to adopt, the same will happen in the transition from a Bukkit API to a Mojang API. The exact same "death" will be felt by those plugins moving from Bukkit to Mojang as would be faced by plugins moving from Bukkit to Spout. This is to say - as long as the developer updates the plugin than people will be fine. To that end, I'm sure developers will be the ones to choose what platform they use - I know I'll chose the platform best suited to giving me a vanilla+ Minecraft experience (as that's what my server targets).
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    ok I can follow that way of thinking.. maybe the past page was a bit too much rage and a bit too less logic thinking.. I decided only to work with my own plugins in the future, I discovered with the 1.2 update, you're too dependent if you use a lot of plugins. However, coding your own makes it easy to control updates (no matter what platform) and you can easily hard-code stuff in which you would have to make config options for if you made the plugin public. That's what I'm doing atm and it works just fine =)
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    Sorry, i really can't see anything "pathetic" in that post :confused:

    lol? 99% of the spout community are users of the spout plugin, which requires bukkit...how the hell could they be more than the bukkit community?

    So? You're talking about bukkit as if it would be some great piece of software...trust me, it's not :/

    Yep, best thing for the bukkit team! (see Curse)

    No comments here, i agree it'll be better than bukkit!

    No, it will be the Vanilla plugin for Spout!

    Show me ONE post, just one, where any of the spout team members is flaming bukkit! One is enough ;)
    But you should probably learn what flaming is first :(

    You sir are very misinformed...spout is actually doing very well :/

    Spout will support bukkit plugins through a separate plugin!

    I agree :)

    Yeah, most people will go for that ^^
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    Hmm yea, I know now people have other opinions.. and I don't think we can predict the future.. So we'll just have to wait I think? Afforess , I'm sorry if I raged too hard.. I do understand because of TnT now that it's not really the point of comparing spout/bukkit/mojang APIs.. a server admin chooses his platform because of the plugins I suppose right? So it's more a personal taste than "this is better than that one", right?

    ZNickq likes this.
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    Don Redhorse

    btw... why do we get a bug fix which will contain an update now from Mojang?

    we haven't seen a RB yet for 1.2.x and mojang is pushing out even more changes...

    well I agree... plugin devs and server admin will choose.... and those with the most "sane" amount of players who don't update directly to see cats run around in big trees and get bored 10 minutes afterwards will run a decent server and keep complaining because the world generation code was changed again.

    atm minecraft is either something static... forced by pre-rendered maps... or a hit and run game with constant changes... the gap between creative players and hunters of the change is getting bigger and bigger..

    you choose.... I did..
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    What do you mean? =)
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    Don Redhorse

    well if you play on a server and want to build something nice, big, complicated etc... you need time.. so you will not change / update the server so often, especially as it requires a lot of time and complicated work like exporting buildings and importing them again. You also probably don't like the constant changing of worldgeneration which will destroy the nice view of your map or even break the map if you do a chunk regenerate.

    If you just play for the kick it doesn't matter to you that your hyper cool castle is probably not there anymore or that directly next to your nice little beach will be a chunk with a flat mountain of the hight of 200 blocking the sun... mainly because you either are speed building, have too much time or don't have such things..

    so the players who are more "creative" linger behind... keeping their client on an old version and waiting till there is something stable or a REAL need to upgrade... while the others who are just in for the kick will request the newest version of everything directly if not yesterday... and only to be gone after the "newness" of the new version has drained... and to come back again when there is something new.. those are 2 type of players who are in my opinion the total opposite, and they get divided more and more as the new versions come quicker and quicker and the stable versions take more and more time.

    we are now getting a 1.2.4 which is not compatible with 1.2.3.. wtf? is this because of a bug fix which is needed or is this because of feature creep?

    we don't even have ONE rb out yet for 1.2.3 and mojang pushes for another 1.2.x release... and bukkit is still pulling change after change after change into the betas... yes... fixing bugs and issues... but a lot of them are old and the priority should be to have a working RB for 1.2.x first... and than add features..

    I don't understand these development and test cycles honestly... they are against anything you will find as best practice in the developing industry afaik.
    Guy_de_Siguro and zipron like this.
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    mbaxter ʇıʞʞnq ɐ sɐɥ ı

    Perhaps this post will inform you as to what to expect for the RB. http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/reminder-bukkit-is-following-a-new-release-system.65358/
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