A meeting with Mojang Specifications

Discussion in 'Bukkit News' started by EvilSeph, Jan 20, 2011.

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    On Wednesday morning, as I'm sure most of you already know, the Bukkit team had a meeting with Mojang Specifications regarding their popular game, Minecraft. Going into the meeting, we were hoping to tackle the licensing issue right out of the door. Unfortunately, due to some people being unable to make it, it turned out to be a different type of meeting than we had intended.

    With only the developers of Minecraft able to attend, the meeting quickly turned into a technical discussion about what ideas we all had for Minecraft, how modding should work and so on. As we learned a lot from this meeting, we felt we should share some of the points with you. However, please understand that absolutely nothing said in the meeting is set in stone or final and can change at any time.

    So, here's what we learned:
    • Modding support will likely start as server-side only at first, then later is hoping to expand to the client-side
    • Single player is most likely going to be changed to run through a local server (this is also to enable modding)
    • They are hoping to make texture modification easier, without having to modify the client
    • They like what we're doing but need to provide us with a better alternative to the way we're doing it
    Some ideas they're considering:
    • Generic gui support
    • Server -> client communication to allow popping up an interface, etc
    • Being able to tell clients to follow different rules, like physics
    • Giving modders the ability to (make signs) show text
    While we did not have time to address our licensing issues, we believe we can honestly say that this meeting was just the beginning of a long-term relationship with Mojang Specifications. Nonetheless, we're hoping to contact Mojang Specifications specifically about our licensing issues soon.
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    This is still amazing to hear. I am pleased that progress is being made, especially with communication. This is definitely the first step in a lasting relationship. I'm sure there won't be too much of a problem once everyone gets a chance to sit down with each other and have a proper discussion about this licensing issue. Good luck to the Bukkit team, I hope for the best.
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    Thanks for the links though mostly not helpful to us. How about a link to some kind of modification to allow people on your server but not allow tnt, lava, or buckets for a certain group of people like the spectators and then being able to keep your groups as well as warp points?

    I am looking into MCMyAdmin more but that still doesn't seem like what i need to run the latest server either.
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    This is better than nothing, but I look forward to the next meeting.

    Om jag kan göra något för att hjälpa bara att fråga.
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    Notch may be CEO, but legalities are a completely different kettle of fish. The CEO generally has to go through lawyers first to make sure nothing comes back to them in the ass. Being a CEO may be great and all, but having to go through a lot of legal stuff yourself is a bit silly, when you can get someone else to do it for you.

    Yes, Notch still gets a say, but that's within reason with the lawyers. Everyone assumes it's Notch's fault for everything that goes wrong, but some people have already commented, the company is split into component parts that are run by their own specialist. Notch is the head honcho that controls the component parts.
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    Well even if they didn't talk about licensing explicitly it seems like you have enough of a relationship to warrant more effort and for sever admins to feel somewhat less worried about implementing the mod. It would be hard for them to argue at this point that you're violating their terms when they're having meetings with you and say 'we like what you're doing'. I guess it would be nicer to have them explicitly you grant you some kind of official permission, but right now you're in the same boat as Microsoft kinect hackers: no official permission but something like unofficial approval.
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    Carl is the Managing Director and Daniel handles Business Development.
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    Do what you guys can do, we really appreciate you guys taking reigns and pushing this thing along and just really cant wait to get back to playing Minecraft like normal!
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    So basically these two guys are taking the hard legal stuff away from Notch, it's a couple of things left to worry about i suppose. :)
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    Jassin Pain

    Nail, head, hammer ... I could not agree more. This week has really highlighted the diff between pro game company and indy games. I understand beta, but really talking about nerf guns and coffee while your 1 million paying gamers can not even login is kind of *****ed. I am very sad
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    The game is still under development, so the code is changing, which breaks 3rd part mods such as Bukkit. Since Bukkit is 3rd party, notch doesn't develop it and we are lucky that notch is even working with the Bukkit devs at all. If you want it to be working perfectly all the time, wait until Minecraft gets out of beta and Bukkit is out of the nightly dumps stage; and as they are dev dumps, you can't expect them to be working properly all the time and it is clearly stated as such.

    Be glad that you have something part of the time and when it isn't working, wait patiently. Bukkit is a free mod, the devs don't get paid, so this isn't a paying job and it is something that they do in their spare time because they want to. If you were paying (not donating) for Bukkit, the complaining might be justified.
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    I think we have to take this into perspective...

    Afterall, Minecraft is only just into it's Beta stage. The response and community following Minecraft gained whilst even in Alpha is something to marvel at. The license issue is something that will inevitably be worked out over time, these kind of things often do because to put it in a simple metaphor "There are hoops to be jumped through."
    I think that the fact a such a strong modding community has spurred on a modding development team to meet with the game developers before the game is even "fully" released is a great omen for thing to come.

    I personally am very impressed with the Bukkit developers, the modding comminity, and not to mention the Minecraft team for recognising this modding community as being such an asset to the game.

    Despite the concerns voiced by other posts, overall this is a great opportunity for the development of Bukkit and subsequently Minecraft. Good on you guys, and all the best with the licensing issues.
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    Quite honestly map protection is B.S. and I'm sick of hearing about it!!! The game is "Survival - Multiplayer" - Perhaps the GAME DEVELOPER (N0tch) intended that "griefing" as you call it, actually be a part of the GAME, and that things such as warps and teleporting destroy the reality of it. Perhaps the strategy of building in a secluded area, teaming up with trusted friends, building traps and intelligent design to thwart thieves and griefers, and not dying.... is part of the game strategy.

    Sorry to stray off topic with that response. The topic is actually that Bukkit MET with Mojang - and, that... is good news even if the goals weren't met, there is a line of communication.
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    Oh yes, but then you have a cratered map.

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    Sorry man but I really dont agree with much of what you just said overall, Jassin Pains comment above you helps to sum it up as well. If it wasn't for 3rd party plugins this game wouldn't be nowhere near as popular, I know for a fact that most of the people I know that play it and my team (blog and minecraft show as well as server workers) wouldn't play the game anymore if these admin tools and such wasn't in it. I would bet that everyone that posts on this forum would probably stop playing if not just barely play at all if it wasn't for these tools, Notch needs to realize that its the most important stuff about the game and treat it as such. And if I knew of a paid mod that would work right now, I would be all over it!
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    EvilSeph, I know its out of the scope of what your goals are, but was anything discussed about performance of the server? If not, and if you have a moment, can you bring it up? We badly need a huge increase in performance of the server under load, mainly CPU and memory, but bandwidth needs a look at as well.

    Thank you for all of the hard work
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    I dislike when people say things like this. Because the update that provided the cake, and the note blocks, and the dye colors, and the squid, was a good and fun update. When you say things like that, you mostly send a signal that you wouldn't have preferred to have the cake. All this stuff took effort to code, and all of it is good and fun. Don't be so ungrateful; deal with the issues in the usual way instead of disparaging good work just because it's unrelated.

    EDIT: I'm not trying to white knight Notch, either; god knows enough of that is going around. I just think it's easy to forget that when more fun stuff is added, the game improves. Implying that that's a bad direction to go in as a game developer just because there are some other things that need to be done (and they do need to be done) seems really bad to me.
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    Trees, don't forget trees! :D
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    And dispensers. Criminy, I'm fired. What am I, a post-Beta Minecraft buyer? ;)
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    Seriously though, I think Bukkit are doing a sterling job of going through the right channels instead of just doing it and hoping not to get caught. :)
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    Very promising to hear about the possibility of a gui - should makes mods that much more versatile and user-friendly.
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    Perhaps this is why Notch was initially opposed to modifications in the first place. Why is it his responsibility to deal with an unofficial modification that came completely out of left field, even if it is supposedly what made the game popular? On that note, plenty of people have a grand old time in singleplayer, so I don't think you can attribute the success of the game entirely to the modding community.

    Back on topic, this is great news. :) I'd much rather have a productive talk about the future of modding (and this time with tacit Mojang endorsement!), rather than one simply about getting Bukkit pushed out the door ASAP. I, for one, think this is a milestone for the modding community.

    EDIT: Also, I have to say that the Bukkit team are doing a kick-ass job of keeping up with a moving target. If you want to play Minecraft with mods, follow one of the many tutorials for setting up the dev project on these forums. I've been trying it out myself and -- thanks to the hard work of the plugin developers, et al -- the essentials seem to be there.
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    And Mojang Specifications - I am pretty sure, and I certainly do hope, you read threads like this. I don't have twitter, so here: I'd like to commend you strongly for working with your customers in this manner. Good-faith interaction like you're doing will be reciprocated. Here's a half-joking statement: If you give the OK, and provide the tools, you'll never have to code anything again for Minecraft if you decide not to. Your customers will do it for you, for free, because they love it and they love your game.

    I was bought your game one time, and I in turn bought it two times for others.

    Because this is the kind of dev house you have, as well as because of the excellence of your product, this is what people like me gladly do, and will continue to do, with their money.
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    Very nice announcement, even if it wasn't exactly what you you were going for. It's good to see a relationship developing with Mojang, which can only make the Bukkit stronger.
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    Laying the ground work for a better tomorrow! I like it :3
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    no bukkit yet..?
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    So... Is there a time line for this official approval? Or are you going to just wait indefinitely? Or are you thinking about going the perfectly legal, bytecode-editing route that I outlined in a previous post, so you could release bukkit GPL without approval of Mojang? (and obviously, you could still get approval in the future)
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    i dont understand. whats the issue? it sounds like you guys got an understanding. can we have a .002 now please?
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    I can't believe anyone is less and ecstatic about this news. If the Mojang devs are on board, that means all is well and good! Everyone is working together here. Legal issues? Pff, a detail. They will be worked out one way or another. Mojang could have disliked so much modification, they could have said "Our official API will give you less control, and we like it like that." but instead they're talking about custom GUI and mods being able to enhance the client server side? Custom physics?!? This is the stuff we've only been able to dream of.

    I'm sorry it's going to take longer than you'd like to get your mods up and running, but you knew what you where getting into. Don't forget why you started to love Minecraft in the first place. I understand this is like giving a kid a puppy and then taking it away, but go play and explore in vanilla, make a new map everyday...lol at the griefers and just start over (the vanilla server does have kick and ban commands, you know). You'll get your toys back before you even know it.
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    I also like the way this is going. Though I'd love to have a proper release sooner, I think the bukkit team is doing very well with trying to do the right thing. Getting official approval at least, if not official support. It's a good thing.

    I also still agree with mopar, you can still do things to speed up getting bukkit released and still perfectly legal and within the TOS.
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