bukkit perms for all plugins. [Action needed.]

I completely understand your reasoning behind supporting superperms, It's just a shame we can't get to hear Drakia's full opinion without the flame. Personally I think the real reason for him not liking superperms is that it's quite a big change from what we were used to previously, which I understand also.

I think however that superperms are here to stay. Somehow we need to make the change as easy as possible for plugin devs, if that means writing tutorials, or even directly helping people on an individual basis.

Drakia, if you're still watching this topic, I'd really like to hear your full opinion (i.e. give an explanation) without attacking other's. If you can do that then maybe you'll regain my respect for you, otherwise you're not welcome here.

 

When SuperPerms came out I disliked it mainly because it had some issues which have since been fixed, and it completely lacked documentation. I still dislike that we are dependent on another plugin for Permissions.
This topic however is not about whether or not people like superperms, this is one person trying to tell hundreds how to develop plugins, that is what I don't agree with. If the Bukkit team were to start telling people they can't use Permissions or their plugin will be marked inactive I would stop developing for Bukkit.

 

Okay I see where you're coming from now. Tbh I don't think anybody needs to be telling anyone to do anything. Naturally the best system will start to gain popularity (or in the case of Permissions 3.x maintain popularity), and others who aren't with the majority will begin to loose out. It may take a while though which is a little annoying since neither system really has the full majority yet

 

There is really no reason that any system should lose out. But at the same time, there is no system that should be forced on anyone.

 

Give it time and the best will usually rise above the rest

 

Despite the bickering, I hope that developers can draw some informed conclusions from this post on how they wish to proceed with their projects and which things they want to rally around. It's good to talk about the state of plugin development and how things can be improved without toxic finger pointing.

 

I completely support this. Having like 5 different plugins doing the same damn thing just gets annoying. Then compound the fact that they're dependencies for other plugins, and you can only use one at a time. It ends up restricting what plugins one can use. If I want to use 5 different plugins that only support Permissions 3, then I want to use one that only supports SuperPerms, well I'm crap outta luck aren't I?

Yes it is the dev's choice to not support superperms, yes it is the dev's choice to be ignorant and self centered. But I have a question for you, what exactly is the purpose to publishing a plugin on plugins.bukkit.org if it's written to make the dev happy and no one else? As far as I'm concerned plugin devs who want to be stubborn should have their plugins published separately from those that are written with the end-user in mind.


Btw, sorry if I offend any devs, I can't help be quite blunt right now since I'm infuriated by Drakia's trolling.

 

Wrong. What stops you from using two completely different permissions plugins, like Permissions 3 and PermissionsBukkit?
Or better use PermissionsEx or bPermissions (or PermBukkit + Bridge) which all supports both APIs.

I don't see the problem. You can use either of those three and all of the other plugins work, maybe with the exception of a few incompatible ones. Each of them has a different set of commands and configuration files, and you can choose the one which you like the most. If Bukkit had a built-in permissions "plugin", you had to use the specific commands and config files, even if those were too complicated for your needs or if you didn't like them, unless Bukkit had a way to override them.
Permissions is such a controversial issue. It would be hard to design a complete built-in system which satisfies everybody. So I think the way it is now (as a built-in API which kind of requires a separate plugin) is the best we can get. The problem is mostly that this API came so late, that another quasi-standard evolved. But one single permissions plugin can support both APIs.

 

Wouldn't they clash? If a plugin supports both systems then I would think it would get confused as to which one to hook into.

Edit: In the end though, it's a major pain in the arse having to deal with multiple permissions plugins. Having just one makes things simpler for both server admins and new plugin devs alike, only at the cost of knocking the more experienced devs out of their comfort zone.

 

When you come up with a perfect permissions plugin that nobody has any issues with then we will only have one permission handler. Until then, people have a CHOICE of what permission handler to use, most of which interface with the SuperPerm system.

 

*facesword*