Mob spawn rate so low

Discussion in 'Bukkit Help' started by zipron, Apr 14, 2012.

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  1. Offline

    zipron

    Yes, sadly enough, world generation/preservation through updates still aren't that reliable. However, most people with this issue seem to fix it with a new world. Time for Mojang to take a closer look at those issues!

    good luck,
    zip
     
  2. Offline

    Sniggel

    To clarify some things since I might have expressed myself unclear before:

    //butcher, //butcher all, reset all mean the same thing. That is //butcher which kills all mobs on server (and thereby reset spawn. I have switched between these 3 terms. They are all the same.

    Scenario:
    Generated flat world with same server.properties and same plugins activated
    Created a platform at Y=140. Which is 136 blocks above ground. Platform is 110 x 60 in size. My positioning is "towards the end of one of the sides" (to create a good spawn on the platform).
    All spawns should happen on the platform. Except for those that happened before I positioned myself on the platform. But those will be wiped with //butcher.

    Between each row below is 30s wait period. If on same row I did commands as fast as possible:
    /time set 14000 (night) + //butcher (reset) -> 161 kills
    //butcher 125 (whole platform but not touching ground) -> 24
    //butcher 125 - 5
    //butcher 125 - 3
    //butcher 125 - 9
    //butcher 125 - 11
    //butcher 125 - 2 + //butcher - 166
    //butcher - 158
    //butcher - 156
    //butcher - 158
    //butcher - 157
    //butcher - 161

    So at the first //butcher 125 I got 24 kills but on all the consecutive butcherings I got much lower numbers. This is indicative of mobs taking up space "outside" the 125 area, preventing spawn on the platform.
    When i started butchering "all" I got big numbers (160-ish) every time.
    This means that about 160 mobs are generated every 30 seconds, only a few of them on the platform. For all I know spawn range must be higher than 136 (the distance to the ground).

    Ill move the platform up quite a bit and see what happens...

    Yeah server has been quite a few updates. I dont remember if it was started in 1.2.5 or earlier.
    Will try out my platform at Y=210 but my cut/paste crashes my client hehe :p
    Will report back later when I am finished with this test.

    Scenario 2:
    same flat world with same server.properties and same plugins activated
    Created a platform at Y=210. Which is 206 blocks above ground. Platform is same size.
    My positioning is the same
    All spawns should happen on the platform (once again... "should").

    Between each row below is 30s wait period. If on same row I did commands as fast as possible:
    /time set 14000 (night) + //butcher (reset) -> 213 kills
    //butcher 125 (whole platform but not touching ground) -> 15
    //butcher 125 - 15
    //butcher 125 - 6
    //butcher 125 - 2
    //butcher 125 - 2
    //butcher 125 - 3 + //butcher - 207
    //butcher - 206
    //butcher - 208
    //butcher - 208
    //butcher - 208
    //butcher - 207

    So whats different? At first. The mob cap seems to have increased. (I have visited more places, 2 platforms instead of one, although the old platform is gone, it still "has existed" once upon a time)
    Secondly, the buildup of mobs between //butcher 125 seems to be a bit lower.
    Third, the buildup of mobs on //butcher (all) seems higher than before. Probably because of the mysteriously increased mob cap.

    Next test will be on same platform. But i will first "visit more places" (derpflying) before returning.

    Scenario 3:
    same flat world with same server.properties and same plugins activated
    Same platform at Y=210.
    My positioning is the same
    All spawns should happen on the platform (once again... "should").

    I flew near the ground for 1000 blocks straight to west, watching mobs spawn all the time during that trip. Then i returned to the platform.

    Between each row below is 30s wait period. If on same row I did commands as fast as possible:
    /time set 14000 (night) + //butcher (reset) -> 232 kills
    //butcher 125 (whole platform but not touching ground) -> 7
    //butcher 125 - 13
    //butcher 125 - 3
    //butcher 125 - 8
    //butcher 125 - 4
    //butcher 125 - 0 + //butcher - 209
    //butcher - 206
    //butcher - 209
    //butcher - 206
    //butcher - 207
    //butcher - 208

    What is different this time? Well it actually looks about the same. Despite me flying around in new places.

    I will try another approach. Butchering mobs in a larger area without touching the ground!
    What should happen is that there should be no change, since mobs shouldnt spawn in the air. But lets try it anyway:

    Scenario 4 - same as 3 except exaggerated butchering area.

    /time set 14000 (night) + //butcher (reset) -> 215 kills
    //butcher 190 (whole platform but not touching ground) -> 15
    //butcher 190 - 7
    //butcher 190 - 7
    //butcher 190 - 9
    //butcher 190 - 9
    //butcher 190 - 12 + //butcher - 211
    //butcher - 206
    (didnt bother to continue after this)

    Ok. So there are NO ghost entites spawning in the air, good! :p

    If I summarize the info from my tests I know that:
    1. The problem on my server persists on a freshly generated world.
    It feels like:
    1. Mob cap rises at some points for some reason, dunno why and when yet!
    2. Spawning distance is more than 206 blocks for some reason! (suspected this on my tests yesterday too)


    Scenario 5 - butchering during daytime (lights on)

    /time set 100 (day) + //butcher (reset) -> 98 kills (this was a short time after prevous test)
    //butcher - 182
    //butcher - 164
    //butcher - 140
    //butcher - 171
    //butcher - 194

    So there are mobs spawning somewhere despite there being no places for them available to spawn at. Not even the platform (its lit up by the sun). This is indicative of mobs spawning far out of the normal spawning range. Where? There are no dark places to spawn, except for directly below the platform. But this is 206 blocks down and I didnt see that type of mob buildup in 30 seconds on such a "small" area (110x60). So where the hell are they spawning?
    big mystery...

    Holy F**k!

    I just removed the platform (//removenear cobblestone 190) and fell down to the ground (was about to give up for now) and there they were! Lots of mobs burning in the sun (I removed their roof).
    I did a //butcher 190 to kill'em'all to count them before they died from burning up - 160 kills. Then instantly did a //butcher (all) - 8 mobs killed.
    Seems like they really were gathering up in large numbers under the only dark place that existed!
    So. This definately confirms that the spawning distance IS larger than 206 blocks (at least with my settings and plugins).
    The mobs also seem to prefer to spawn at a higher rate when longer away from you. Which I guess is nothing new (?) but the effect seems much more dramatic than what I am used too.

    edit: Next thing I will try will probably be bukkit server with all plugins (except for the one that has the butcher command :p) disabled.

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 25, 2016
  3. Offline

    ifly6

    There's a limited amount of mobs that can be present in a world. Just fill in the platform solidly with WorldEdit.
     
  4. Offline

    Sniggel

    Not sure i understand? In bukkit.yml I have:
    spawn-limits:
    monsters: 130

    Is that the limit you are talking about? From what I know, this cap is meant to be "amount of mobs per person online". Once mob cap is reached there will not be anymore spawning. So if there are 2 players online at the same place, the amount of mobs can reach 260 (with my settings) if enough spawnable areas are found. If the second player logs out. The mobs will stay as long as they are within the reach (125 distance unless a plugin change that value) of the online player. But of course no new mobs will spawn since 260 mobs is more than 130.

    Now the problem I experience is that the server doesnt seem to follow these rules. The mob cap isnt followed strictly and sometimes it grows way out of proportion (have been up to 1000 mobs when only 1 person(me) online, according to "//butcher"). The spawning distance also seem to be increased (from what is suggested on minecraftwiki).

    So what I am suspecting is that these rules have been changed by one of my plugins. Thats why my next step is to inactivate as many plugins as possible and see if the server behaves the way I think it "should" or the way "it used to".
     
  5. Offline

    zipron

    I'm not 100% sure, but mob cap isn't the amount of mobs per player, it has something to do with the density of mobs per amount of chunks. Otherwise you would have f.e. 1 mobspawner on the server, which after a while would use all the available mobs (other mobs die, mob spawner keeps spawning, assuming the mobs aren't killed). Also mob cap only counts for mobs spawning in the wild, not for spawners.

    However your tests seem very interesting, I'm looking forward to the test result without any plugins.
    Zip
     
  6. Offline

    Sniggel

    Did I mention that I also took a screenshot? :D

    2013-01-14_23.43.57.png
     
    zipron likes this.
  7. Offline

    breezeyboy

    Nerver ever ever tag EvilSeph or DinnerBone! Wait for us bukkiters to respond before calling in staff, its just sends you repo down
     
  8. Offline

    zipron

    Well I don't agree on that. I'm sure that the chances are slim to none that developers will read things like this through the forums, but it doesn't hurt to ask as many people as possible, preferably people who know what might cause the issue =)
     
  9. Offline

    breezeyboy

    Im a dev and when i got time im on here, But EvilSeth said it himself and check the bukkit.yml
     
  10. Offline

    Sniggel

    Ok. Time for another test.

    Scenario 2:

    Same flat world with same server.properties and these plugins inactivated:
    Chatmanager
    HerobrineAI
    Modifyworld
    PermissionsEx
    S86_Powers
    Worldguard

    Plugin still activated:
    WorldEdit

    Created a platform at Y=209. Which is 205 blocks above ground. Platform is 100x50 (Almost same. Doesnt need to be exact same size)
    My positioning is "towards the end of one side)
    All spawns should happen on the platform (maybe it does this time?)

    Between each row below is 30s wait period. If on same row I did commands as fast as possible:
    /time set 14000 (night) + //butcher (reset) -> 64 kills
    //butcher 110 (whole platform but not touching ground) -> 110
    //butcher 110 - 73
    //butcher 110 - 79
    //butcher 110 - 77
    //butcher 110 - 69
    //butcher 110 - 66
    //butcher 110 - 122
    //butcher 110 - 116 + //butcher - 0 !!!
    //butcher - 108
    //butcher - 105
    //butcher - 86

    Hooray now the game works according to the rules i expect it too!
    Even tried turning it into day and did a few butchers. No mobs were killed because no mobs could spawn (either too bright on platform or too far away below platform).

    So one of the plugins are doing this. Time to find out which one it is.

    1 Activated:
    S86 and PEX and did the same testing:

    /time set 14000 (night) + //butcher (reset) -> 6 kills
    //butcher 110 (whole platform but not touching ground) -> 87
    //butcher 110 - 75
    //butcher 110 - 84
    //butcher 110 - 98
    //butcher 110 - 111
    //butcher 110 - 102 + //butcher - 0 !!!
    //butcher - 88
    //butcher - 112

    Also tried daytime butchering with same results

    2 Activated:
    modifyworld and worldguard and did the same testing:

    /time set 14000 (night) + //butcher (reset) -> 15 kills
    //butcher 110 (whole platform but not touching ground) -> 117
    //butcher 110 - 79
    //butcher 110 - 91
    //butcher 110 - 65
    //butcher 110 - 84
    //butcher 110 - 69 + //butcher - 5 !!! (almost zero :))
    //butcher - 90

    Also tried daytime butchering with same results

    3 Activated:
    Herobrine and Chatmanager and did the same testing (expecting to see the error show up now):

    /time set 14000 (night) + //butcher (reset) -> 12 kills
    //butcher 110 (whole platform but not touching ground) -> 79
    //butcher 110 - 73
    //butcher 110 - 116
    //butcher 110 - 129
    //butcher 110 - 50 + //butcher - 7 !!! (almost zero :))
    //butcher - 74
    //butcher - 102

    Also tried daytime butchering with same results

    WTF? Now everything seems to work fine all of a sudden!
    I´ll go check on normal server if mob farms behave correct or incorrect brb...

    Still some confusion on the buildup of mobs outside of spawn (does it happen or not?). At least if I look at the numbers. But if i just go to a mob farm there is a huuuge difference in spawn now. Everything seems to work. As I am typing this message I hear in the background a huge amount of noice from mobs being clustered and having panic attacks :p

    Oh well. Lets see for how long it works...

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 25, 2016
  11. Offline

    zipron

    Oh uh, quick note, the spawn chunks are always loaded, no matter if there are players in them or not. However I don't think mobs spawn in the spawn protection, but I can be mistaken.

    You are a dev? like a bukkit dev or a plugin dev? Because your name is not red or any other color mate.. And we tried bukkit.yml 4 topics ago, might want to read everything...
     
  12. For SMP servers running bukkit you got to keep the following in mind.

    a) All loaded chunks counts towards the maximum number of mobs.
    - Therefore the more players online in one world, the less mobs in each 128m area you will see. (especially if the non-spawn areas aren't caved, lit, filled etc)
    b) Any type of block mob spawner and the mobs it spawns will also count towards max amount of mobs - but can exceede the limit.
    - If two people are online, one at a block spawner and one at a mob spawner - the mob spawner will slowly stop producing mobs as the block spawner quickly can exceede your maximum number of mobs.

    Conclusion:
    The more players you have online your server, the more maximum mobs you need to be able to have. It's sad, but how it works.
    - We run with 70/10/5/15 per regular playing player :).
    - You can, typically, only have one mob spawner or block spawner running per world if more than one player is online :). (Not regarding iron farms/iron golem spawners). This is due to the fact that the other player will spawn mobs in a 128m direction too.
    - To prevent yourself from losing a spawner to other areas being filled.. NEVER EVER go closer than 24 blocks. Limiting mobs, especially in a fully lit/caved area, will stop mobs spawning at the spawner and those mob spots will be lost to other loaded areas.


    This is, most likely, why you aren't seeing a problem on SSP :).

    And breezyboy, if you are a DEV, could you perhaps check up if this is true?
    - This is what we have been able to gather from test starting at 1.4.6 when it changed.

    We've been doing a little over 100 tries up to now :). Nothing has changed in anyway in any config file, properties etc.
     
  13. Offline

    Sniggel

    Trying out the mob farm yesterday the problem seems to have disappeared completely. This might seem like good news. But I am not sure I like it since I couldnt find the source of the problem. If the problem arises again I will not be happy :(
     
  14. This may even be the latest minecraft update which prevents mobs spawners to function 'properly' with more players online as they're not keen on their use and thus may altogether have nothing to do with bukkit. They did after all reduce the effectiveness of xp grinders.. A lot.

    Though, if the bukkit team looks into it and perhaps are able to create a way to change the cap from a server cap to a player cap that would be extremely useful in any case for people whom don't appreciate spawners on their servers =)!
     
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